Goggles In Freefall

[gale 0]

Since there has been some discussion recently about emergency procedures in the plane recently, it got me thinking.

I don't wear my goggles on the ride up to altitude. Yes, I'm one of the weenies that keeps their gloves/altimeter/helmet on the whole way but my goggles are just around my neck. So if I have to bail out, say at 7000', they won't be on. I wear contacts. How much of a problem is that? I remeber when I took the first jump course they wouldn't let us out of the plane even at 3000 feet without goggles on if we wore contacts. What are the chances that my contacts won't make it through the freefall? Obviously this would impact (pardon the pun) the landing. This could be avoided by just deploying immediately after exiting the plane but I was just wondering what the chances are of there being problems?

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[Scoby 0]

For what it's worth, I've had my visor flip up on my motorcycle helmet at 120mph. I didn't lose my contacts, but it was not a good experience. I am quite blind, so no vision on a bike or under canopy would be a serious issue. I don't wear my goggles on the ride up because they fog severely. I'm as curious as you to find out the answer. How long after an emergency bailout at altitude is it safe to pull? I will ask a JM next time I go to the DZ.

[AggieDave 6]

You're assuming that you're going to freefall to what ever your normal pull altitude is. If you're concerned about this, close your eyes count to 3 and pull. Otherwise, as some of our jumpers have found out in the past, contacts can and will come out with out goggles.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[gale 0]

Yes, I've read other threads that have said this. Honestly I'm not too worried about that with goggles. My contacts mever pop out as they fit me very well. Under goggles I really don't see why that would happen. That said, I understand it's a possibility.

And yes, I'm assuming that you go into freefall for a while anyway, maybe not down to your normal pull altitude. (An instructor told me this was normal procedure.)

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[Scoby 0]

I saw an ad for acuvue 2 contacts the other day that showed someone wearing them bungee jumping. Still, I wouldn't want to test that out! I simply would not be able to land a parachute without lenses. I wouldn't even be able to find the dropzone. Maybe I should think about lasik...

[billvon 2,400]

>I wear contacts. How much of a problem is that?

Not much of one. Close your eyes and open right away. Or, close one eye, freefall to an altitude of your liking, and open - your other eye will still have the contact in it.

Also, why wouldn't you put your goggles on? Are you wearing your helmet in case you have to bail out? If that's the case, isn't that decreasing your safety, since wearing the helmet will prevent you from putting your goggles on and therefore will be a liability if you have to bail out? I use either a Protec or an FP-1, a full face that takes more time than normal to put on and close the visor, but I can still have it on and visor closed in under two seconds.

[jncoughlin 0]

Although I'm a very newbie skydiver, I'm a long time contact lens wearer. Hard lenses are likely to pop out during freefall, unless the freefall is only for a few secinds. Properly fitting soft lenses, such as Acuvue-2 have a good chance of staying in, especially if you blink frequently. You ARE likely to blink frequently if you're in free fall without goggles. Also, there's always the probability that one, but not both, will pop out.

I can dive headfirst into water with mine in, eyes open, and never lose 'em.

If you're that worried, keep your goggles in aposition where they can be put on quickly. Contacts are still a better bet than prescription goggles, which have all kinds of problems according to what I've heard.

[tombuch 0]

Quote

Yes, I've read other threads that have said this. Honestly I'm not too worried about that with goggles. My contacts mever pop out as they fit me very well. Under goggles I really don't see why that would happen. That said, I understand it's a possibility.

And yes, I'm assuming that you go into freefall for a while anyway, maybe not down to your normal pull altitude. (An instructor told me this was normal procedure.)

Contact lenses can easily fall out in freefall. If you have really bad eyesight, you should be sure to wear your goggles. Pretty simple. It should take about 1/2 second to throw them on. If that is a problem while wearing your helmet, you might think about a different helmet, or simple deal with the potential of being blind. Perhaps your emergency exit procedure without goggles might include closing ONE eye and opening your parachute immediately.

Most aircraft emergencies that require an early exit offer either a few seconds of warning, or a bunch of altitude. Likewise, most emergency exits will take a moment to actually organize and confirm with the pilot, so you will have a few brief seconds to get your goggles on. The exception might be a power loss at about 1,500 feet, but if you choose to get out, I doubt you will have enough freefall time or speed for goggles to be much of a worry. Another exception might be when another jumper gets out early and has his parachute open over the tail. It's always a great idea to be primed and ready to go when another jumper is leaving early...that is more likely to cause a true emergency than a standard engine problem.

The typical emergency exit follows a power loss on the climb, or a rough engine that prevents a climb. Most of these problems happen above a few thousand feet, and you will probably hear the engine noise change in advance or see the pilot start to act unusually busy or anxious. Thus, you will have some time to deal with it and get ready. Be alert on every flight, and be prepared to get out quickly. It can happen fast, but is rarely an ohmygodtheworldisabouttoendsoI'vegottogetoutNOW,NOW,NOW!!!

As for how much freefall you will have, it depends. If the plane is low, you may do a fast hop and pop, throwing your pilot chute as soon as you clear the tail. In that case you will have a bunch of forward speed, but no vertical speed, so the parachute will open behind you, not overhead. It's a different feeling, but not a big deal. IAD and static line jumpers face this kind of opening all the time, as do some CRW jumpers, and a few skydivers who just like to do quick openings.

If your exits are super stable, you might try dumping when you clear the tail on a future fun jump. That is a real "clear and pull and is actually fun.

If the emergency exit is from a higher altitude, like 7,000 feet, you may choose to open at your planned altitude, or you may open a bit higher than normal if the spot is way off, as it very well might be. If you do open higher than normal, keep in mind there will probably be people getting out behind you, and the separation may be less than normal, so do an extra great job of waving and looking above you prior to opening. You and the pilot may also choose to give up some altitude and glide back to the DZ, making your exit lower, but the spot better. Decisions, decisions. Whatever happens, you will probably deal with it easily.

I've been on more than a few "problem flights", the lowest at about 2,000 feet, and the highest at 10,000 feet, but that one was more than 4 miles from the DZ with an AFF level 1 student. They are really a breeze.

The key is to know where you are and what your options are. Do what the pilot tells you, or if he is really busy, make the decision yourself and tell him what you are going to do before doing it. Wait for a quick OK, an abrupt NO, or a head nod, and move along.

Emergency exits are a great discussion topic around the DZ on a bad weather day, especially if you can get your pilot involved, and perhaps even add a few people who have handled the emergency in the past. In the student program we train them as a big deal and super time sensitive, and while that can be the case, it usually isn't.

Anyway, good questions. Sorry about the long winded answer.

[mffi422 0]

Just a bit of info here. At the school house (MFF School that is) are normal procedures on an aircraft emergency exit is to clear and pull immediately. Reason: This allows the airplane and the pilots to have as much room and altitude to manuever for a safe landing without having to worry as much about jumpers in freefall. They know all jumpers should be above them and will have the airspace all to themselves. We have had a few problems since I've been at the school (6 yrs) and this tactic has all proven itself. And....all the jumpers know exactly what they are going to do on exit before anything happens

[fred 0]

This is what I've learned as well. If it is an emergency exit, even if it's at 9k ft or on jumprun, you are expected to leave the aircraft quickly and do a clear-and-pull... This gives the airplane lots of space to maneuvre, and takes care of most seperation issues. Is this not standard practice?

[mffi422 0]

It's not standard but should be!!!! It works.

[drenaline 0]

Hi Gale, my 2 cents are: wear your goggles in a position were you can put them on real fast, practice on the ground where you can wear them to put them on faster. The only thing that will be a problem is if you are sitting by the door and you fall, for that close one eye (can't remember wich one is the one you have to close, left brain right brain theory) and pull when clear of the tail, that way you will save one lense.

About the emergency procedures, in my dropzone is if you are lower than 1000 you stay in the plane, between 1000 feets and 2000 feets you go for the reserve, between 2000 and 3000 you pull, higher than 3000 you arch and then pull. I think those are the numbers, gonna ask again to see if am still right.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[jfields 0]

I wear soft contacts. I've had contact lense issues on about 4 jumps. Each time, a lense came out and ended up stuck on the inside of my goggle. It can happen if the goggles aren't tight enough, or if they are too tight and end up distorted, leaving an air gap somewhere.

How you fly and land with a contact out depends on your vision. I'm nearsighted, but not horribly so. I did a good bit of the canopy flight with the contact-less eye closed. It did not make a huge bit of difference up until final approach and flare time. The decrease of depth perception can play havoc with the timing of your flare. Be aware and go extra cautious.

I use extended wear contacts, but I have also bought a box of 1-day disposables for trips to the DZ. That way, if I end up losing one, it is no big loss. I just pop open another set (or just the specific eye) and keep going.

As for what to do if you can't see well in freefall... I noticed my vision go to crap because of a lost contact. On this particular jump, my goggles came pretty loose and away from my head some. So the eye that did have the contact got pretty useless also. I did an exaggerated wave off and pulled right then.

[DZDale 0]

I wear soft contacts and fortunately have never lost any while skydiving, I somehow think that if you had to squint really tightly you probably wouldnt lose a lens, however Id rather not try it until forced into that situation. I swim with my contacts in and also open my eyes under water which has never been a problem.

I wear a fullface helmet when doing RW, about a week ago I exited the plane and reaslised that my Visor was not down, all I did was pop it closed (Z1), no problem, although at that stage of the skydive I probably wasnt moving fast enough to lose a lens.



Blue Skies
Dale

"The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival." - safe swoops -

MY DZ

[christoofar 0]

Gale:

I'm a contact-lens wearer and I've jumped out at least 30 times without goggles or helmet on hop-and-pops.

For me, if I am in the box position, the air current sides over my face and avoids my eyelids. I don't really notice the wind hitting my eyes until after deployment and the relative wind is actually coming into my face.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.