blueshrew 0 #1 April 9, 2003 I have been reading the 50 ft flat turn thing in a lot of replies lately. I can't help but think that this sounds awfully low. Maybe not for a 190 loaded at 1:1, but for the 120 at 1.1:1 I am jumping, I am still having trouble imagining it. I talked to my former Instructor about this, who is the most fantastic and innovative advisor, and he said, that with a lot of experience and practice I could probably flare turn it in 20 ft, and that a flat turn does not necessarily equal a flat turn. His advice was to start practicing non-agressive flat turns up high, and try to achieve a turn with a minimum pendulum, then work my way down with this. He suggested we do a hop'n'pop together and look at each others' fingers so to speak. I think this a great idea, and I hope he has time soon. So my question is (since it is always good to listen to a lot of people's versions of things) what pointers would you guys give me that I might have missed? Thanx, Nadine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #2 April 9, 2003 If your instructor is guiding you, directly, that is the best advice you can get. There is no good substitute for someone who is there with you, and has personal experience in your abilities. The best advice on flat turns here: Practice them up high to begin with, and get proficient with them before you really need them to get yourself out of a corner. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueshrew 0 #3 April 9, 2003 Sure, I am aware of that, and I go and ask him about everything anyone tells me about anything. But I try to listen to what everyone can tell me and ask around because from each person's explanation of the same thing, you can usually find something that you might have missed if it was explained to you in a different way with more stress on a different aspect of it for instance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #4 April 9, 2003 Already said but: Go with your instructor on this. To answer your question: I recently did a controled 180 degree flatturn at aprox. 40 feet. I jump a contrail (full eliptical) 135, with a 1.6 wingload. One thing your instructor will brief you on is slow (braked) aproaches. You need this too (at least for the way I do my flatturns), after i've done my flatturns I'm in 1/2 to 3/4 brakes and need to flare from there...The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #5 April 9, 2003 >I have been reading the 50 ft flat turn thing in a lot of replies >lately. I can't help but think that this sounds awfully low. It is definitely low, and that's why it kills people. The problem is that someday you may have the choice between colliding with someone at 50 feet or turning - and on that day, if you can flat turn, you will survive turning at 50 feet. I hope it goes without saying that you should practice it up high, and get good instruction, before you try it at 50 feet. When it comes right down to it, it's about as dangerous than initiating a 90 deg toggle hook at 50 feet (or whatever minimum altitude you need to initiate to have it recover in time.) Both are radical manuevers close to the ground, and both can kill you if you don't know what you're doing. >I could probably flare turn it in 20 ft, and that a flat turn does not >necessarily equal a flat turn. That's exactly right. A flat turn turns your canopy in the minimum amount of altitude possible and puts you facing a different direction at normal (or slightly slower) airspeed; a flare turn turns and stops your canopy without _any_ unusual loss of altitude (i.e. during the final flare.) Flat turns let you avoid someone in the air at 50 feet; flare turns let you avoid the 5 year old who just ran in front of you as you start to flare. >He suggested we do a hop'n'pop together and look at each others' > fingers so to speak. He sounds like a good instructor; that's the right way to learn - jumping with someone else who can both show you what to do and critique your performance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #6 April 13, 2003 I like to think in terms of flat turn degrees.15,30.45.60,75,90.Learn all these with your parachute and you got it licked.Working your way up to 120.150,180,etc.The trick of course is the different wind conditions.Short angle turns are best for high winds.No wind or low wind days you can play and learn.Be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #7 April 18, 2003 >He suggested we do a hop'n'pop together Good idea - I like this instructor and I've never even met him. >what pointers would you guys give me At http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html#learning I put something called "Canopy Control - Wings Level" which talks about braked turns and some other canopy stuff. I'd be interested to know what you're instructor thinks of the ideas in it. skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
