storm1977 0 #1 August 2, 2003 Ok, I am now finally starting to look for my first rig. There seems to be so many options and opinions out there, and I am not really sure who or what to go with. I have looked up sizes, and it is just too damn confusing. I am looking for a 190 Zerop main, and 170 res. I weigh about 170 and I am 5'8". A little help... Obviously there is going to be alot of opinions out there, so some suggestions on what NOT to buy would help, but I also what to here some recommendations. Thanx. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #2 August 2, 2003 I'll leave it to the very experienced folks on this forum to advise you on the actual gear selection, but let me tell you this. I'm also a newbie, and I own my parachute for less than a year. BUY USED! Buying your first rig new is a bad idea. There's a Classifieds on this very webpage. I mixed and matched my entire rig from here. And the best part is that dz.com is a community. Even if you don't know the seller, you can find someone who jumps at their DZ on the forums. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #3 August 2, 2003 Quote BUY USED! Buying your first rig new is a bad idea. Could you elaborate on your reasons for this? I'd like to be able to buy used, but from what I've seen for sale so far, it's tough to find exactly what I'm looking for. I am guessing that someone here may argue: "You're a student.. how can you possibly know exactly what you're looking for?" In my own circumstances; we really only have one local manufacturer of rigs (Chute Shop) offering value and quality that makes them the obvious choice for rigs lately (even prefered over Aerodyne). This therefore makes my choices a little simpler. If my harness fits me well (which it will if ordered new), and it has RSL & AAD, and my canopies are of an acceptable wingloading as advised by my instructors.. then what rig options could I possibly regret later? As for downsizing; I would already probably be downsizing from a 285 student square to a 215 'high-performance' ZP square. (wingloaded at about 0.9) Am I likely to get bored with that canopy so fast that it would not even justify buying it new? ..or am I missing something important ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #4 August 2, 2003 Quote Buying your first rig new is a bad idea. I disagree with this statement completely. If you see yourself as one of those guys that MUST GO FASTER AND FASTER all the time throwing all caution to the winds then this might have some merit. Otherwise, new gear is perfectly OK as long as you KNOW you are gonna be doing this for a long time. You (hopefully) have a lot of years ahead of you in this sport. A new rig can last you for years, you KNOW where its been and how many jumps are on it. Primary considerations for first rig should be safety, not downsizability :-) You can downsize your main after a couple years if you want to (and are ready to) go a little faster. I am not saying that you SHOULD buy new, only that its a perfectly good option and ruling it out because you are new is silly. Just make your choices carefully and keep asking questions :-) BTW, just because there is only one gear shop nearby doesnt mean thats your only option for new gear. You obviously have an internet connection! Look at Paragear or Square1 or any number of other places. I bought my new rig from TSO-Deland in Florida and I live in PA. I got GREAT service and exellent pricing. Shop around, dont limit yourself to one shop cuz its geographically near you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #5 August 3, 2003 QuoteQuote BUY USED! Buying your first rig new is a bad idea. Could you elaborate on your reasons for this? The main reason is cost... a good, safe, used rig might cost around $2500... and you can find deals for much less. A new rig will cost you around $5000 dollars. Buying used means you will have $2500 extra dollars to buy other gear, like helmets, jumpsuits, etc., and more jump tickets. Now if you have a lot of cash lying around, you can buy new stuff, but when you are new in your skydiving career, (such as in your case, only 2 jumps), you really don't know what size main you will need, or what kind of flying you will do: RW, freeflying, CREW, etc. Since most new skydivers need to use really big mains, if you buy a new rig that can hold a manta 288 that you are using on student status, something tells me you will be kicking yourself when you have 100 jumps, and you can't jump in winds higher than 14 mph because you will go backwards. Not only that, but you will be stuck with that size main until you either find something like a 260 (rare size), or until you buy a whole new container. just my 2 pfennig MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #6 August 3, 2003 I didn't say that in consideration to downsizing. Student status is EXPENSIVE. We are still in the stage where skydiving does not pay for itself, and won't for a while. We are counting our gas money, and most people can't afford to just dish out an extra $3000 on a rig when they could get something that will get them in the air, be fun and be safe for $1500 (minus Cypres). Let me illustrate: Person A has a brand new Vector 3 with a brand new Sabre 2 and a brand new PD Reserve. There is also a brand new Cypres 2 in there. Because he spent something around $6000 on his rig, he can only afford to make 50 jumps on it. Person B has a used Javelin with a used Sabre 1 and a used Raven. There's a Cypres 1 in the rig. He is able to put 200 jumps on this rig by the end of the season. Who is better off? -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #7 August 3, 2003 I'd have to agree with buying used gear for your first rig. I'm just barely off student status and I have a used talon. I'm only a little embarrassed to admit that I dont stand up every landing just yet.. but if I had brand new gear, I'd be more likely to sacrifice flesh rather than scratching up my gear or getting it dirty if I bombed a landing. Its similar to buying a sixteen year old a brand new car. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense. Get a good, sturdy rig that you can contine to learn on. Also, as stated by others in this thread, you are likely to downsize before you can get your moneys worth out of brand new gear. But hey, its your money... just get a rig and keep jumping! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #8 August 3, 2003 HI, I'm new to the sport and was faced with the same dilemma as you. My instructors put me on rental gear about half way to my A licend. I started with a 220 triathlon and after a few jump went to a 190 triathlon. In the meantime I went to others DZs and jumped their rental gear, mostly 9 cell canopy. My advice would be find a 190 rental and jump it and than when you go to buy you'll have some idea what your getting. There are a lot of killer deals in the ads right here and usually the seller will ship to your rigger for inspection for air worthiness. Most of the ads are people getting out of the sport or people downsizeing. I bought a used Infinity container a new 190 saber 2 , new PD193r, new cypers. I bought the used container because I didn't want to wait 4 weeks for one to be built, the canopys were off the shelf and I had them in 4 days. Because of my age I probably won't downsize, but I could easily drop one size in my container no problem and my canopy has good resale value. Also you can take about 30% off new gear right out the door, so if you think you might be downsizeing any time soon it doesn't make sense to buy new. This is just my perspective on buying gear. hopefully the people that trained you will help you make good buying decisions. blue skies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #9 August 3, 2003 I got some suggestions from friends, and tell me what you think... First off, I am not one to "Hot dog" it in this sport, and I don't think i ever will be. I view the canopy ride as a safe way to get me down, not as part of the excitement of skydiving. At my current level, I know I can handle a 190, and in a year or two w/some experience maybe I will want to drop to a 170, but i won't be downsizing beyond that for many years to come if at all. But who knows... A friend recommended getting a NEW rig, and a used main, reserve, and (cypress new or used). The reasoning is that the container will be costum fit to me. We all know what rented gear is like, or a rig that doesn't fit exactly right. I could get a rig where a 190 would be the upper limit, and it would allow me to drop to a 170 in a couple years. Money is obviously an issue, but renting gear on every jump cost $$$ too. I figure after 120 jumps renting, I have already payed for a used rig. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #10 August 3, 2003 Right on dude, it sound like you know what you want out of the sport. A custom container right from the git go would be a good idea for you. I had to have the leg and chest strap modified on my rig when I got it. The manufacturer is just up the road so it was no big deal, in fact I just had my first repack done and the reserve cable only extended 1 inch past the handle. My rigger called infinity and they swapped it out for a longer one no charge. well good luck blue skies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kai2k1 0 #11 August 4, 2003 120 jumps and its paid for?? did you get this rig from fingerhut? id rather use DZ rental gear that they would upgrade at some point. just my opinion There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #12 August 4, 2003 I agree about buying used... You'll save money, which you can in turn make more jumps with... you won't have to wait 2 or so months for the custom stuff to arrive (renting in the meantime)... You will find what you're looking for... I have just about 900 jumps and I have yet to buy a new rig... I've only purchased 2 reserves, and one main canopy as new... the rest were all used. I've spent a total of about 4800 bucks (after selling the old stuff and reinvesting the money on it's replacement) on 3 rigs, 3 reserves, 7 canopies, and a cypress... I never made any profit on a single thing that I sold. I think that it's a waste of money to buy new as a student... Hell, I still buy used! Search the web, check message boards, and spread the word... Call gear stores... You can find what you're looking for. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #13 August 4, 2003 Quote120 jumps and its paid for?? did you get this rig from fingerhut? id rather use DZ rental gear that they would upgrade at some point. just my opinionI'm guessing he just did a quick $3000 (ballpark used rig) / $25 (ballpark retal charge) = 120 jumps. yeah, if you tweak the numbers a little bit more like $3400 / $20 (which is about what my calculation looked like) you're closer to 170 jumps when it's "paid for"... Either way that's fine by me, just make sure if you buy a complete used rig you know the age and condition of all the components (ie, has the reserve had any rides? when was cypres manufacured? does it need new batteries soon?) you'll find your rigger is brimming with information about this kind of thing, and it never hurts to chat with them before spending hard earned money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #14 August 4, 2003 Chris, Here's my thoughts... New... If you're buying new, any of the major manufacturer's rigs are good... Sunpath, mirage, infinity, vector, voodoo (R.I.), wings... Performance designs, icarus, precision, Cypress, etc... Used... If you're buying used, the type of rig that you buy has to depend in some ways on the discipline you plan on learning. If you're going to exclusively fly rw, then which rig / year / model is much less critical than if you were to learn freefly, or be an all around flyer. If rw is not your thing, then you must make sure that your rig meets certain criteria... it must be freefly friendly... The pilot chute must be BOC, not on the leg, there should be a bridle cover, the main flap should not open easily, the rig should fit you well. Have a rigger check out the gear for discreet wear... if it doesn't feel right, do not buy it! When you try it on, keep it on for 10 minutes at least... strap it down and feel it out. MAke sure it feels a thousand times better than the student gear you had been jumping. Reserves... As for reserves, go with a performance designs reserve, at or close to a 170. People will argue that it doesn't have to be a pd reserve, well here's my personal opinion... There is no better reserve on the market... it's that simple. Main canopy... On to the main... this really depends on what you've progressed through and to so far, and how you're flying and landings have been. How's your understanding of a landing pattern? I would think that a 190 is being safe, a 170 is being overly confident, and a 150 is just stupid. Now, you may do 50 jumps and then decide to get the 170, and that's all good... for now you should probably go with the 190. Sabre 1, sabre 2, spectre, safire, nitron... I'm sure that there are others but I can't think of them right now. Again, have a rigger look at the main for you. Look for wear on the lines, at the attachment points to the canopy, look for wear on the slider and on the grommets... Check the canopy itself for wear and tears. I personally send each canopy that I've purchased back to pd for inspection and reline... It's not too expensive, and I feel great knowing that They've looked at it and it's passed. (Look for a rig where the largest canopy that will fit into it is a 190, or else you'll have to downsize rigs in order to downsize canopies). AAD... If you don't buy a new cypress (which you definitley don't have to do), you should look for one that has already had it's annual check, and has batteries are up to date. Cypress go back every 4 years, and only last 12 years... I'm not sure about the exact details of the battery life time, but either way, everything should be inspected and working. Get a new dytter, and a new altimeter, and a jumpsuit with dark colors (won't see the grass stains or dirt marks) I'm sure I've missed some details, but others will surely add. Be safe -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #15 August 4, 2003 Thanks drew!!! I've got the dark Jumpsuit and the altimeter. I am glad I got the ass and legs black on the suit!!! Had one nice down wind, and a couple of late flares!!!! Thanks for the advice, now the seach is on. I have only been looking for a few days, but i get the feeling this is going to be about as fun as it was to find a one bedroom apt in Long Island. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
