Praetorian 1 #1 February 27, 2004 Ok so I've been having a recurring skydiving nightmare with delusions of grandeur.. and I want to know 1 what would you do 2 what "should you do" and replies to what I did (in the dream I know this is beyond my skill/balls in the real world) My coach jumps without a cypress, main is elliptical 130ish reserve is 120something (what ever PD reserve is in the 120 range, I know its smaller then the main) IN said stupid nightmare coach is getting into floater position and I'm walking to door (twin otter) something happens (engine blows up pilot sneezes whatever, coach falls away from plane and somehow I just know coach has been knocked cold, I dive out after coach ... air to air I catch coach .. around 10,000 feet AGL ... try to awaken coach (slap to face etc) check pulse (ALTERNATE POINT 1) now I decide to deploy coach's main and pull my own to follow/yell at etc, My main opens nicely I see unconscious coach under a spinning diving Mal.. now here is the REALLY BS PART.. in the dream I fly over coach, chop my main catch spinning diving mal pull coach's release... now were back in Free fall, pull coach's reserve and then my own, now coach is unconscious under a reserve I'll gestimate at 1.2 or 1.3 :1 and flying into trouble/bad landing area away from DZ once again BS kicks in, I with NO knowledge of CRW fly over top dock onto her cute turn towards the DZ and stay stacked till flare time (for coach)execute a flare to land coach then flare for myself and land ... total BS now the questions 1 what would you do under every condition other then the intentional cutaway I know thats beyond my guts../probably stupid and would never work. I think the better option would have been to go direct to reserve first, smaller yes but square not elliptical. Pulling High is my other thought gives the most time to wake up before landing 2alternate point .. check pulse (not sure I could do that in Free fall but go with it) NO pulse my opinion stay with coach till about 3000 feet pull coach's reserve pull mine... comments opinions PLEASE don't mock my BS dream It was not my analytical mind making up those BS air to air rescues, at my skill I'd probably spend most of the dive fighting to catch coach and when I did I'd probably pull silver and keep my fingers crossed for coach. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #2 February 27, 2004 OK not one comment? not even one barb about my stupid james bond dream? HOW ABOUT ANYONE ANSWER THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS If you catch an unconcious skydiver do you pull their main or their reserve? Should you pull high giving them time to wake up or should you pull them lower if they are hurt bad (less time to the ground and help less distance from the DZ) If you have CRW skills should you try to dock on them and guide them? Can you Flare a canapy you are docked on, and if so can you seperate and land safely yourself after? oh yea and one other, how do you decide when to break off and save yourself .. is this decision changed if you know they do or do not have a cypres? Would you go low enough trying to save someone that you had to go to your reserve/ risk an AAD opening? Have I seen too many movies? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #3 February 27, 2004 QuoteI with NO knowledge of CRW fly over top dock onto her cute turn towards the DZ and stay stacked till flare time I would say you have the hots for her. It is a her right? Anyway, I really like the idea of checking someone's pulse or slapping their face in freefall. I only have wierd skydiving dreams if I haven't jumps in a few weeks. I would say this is not uncommon. As for what to do, and what to pull? I would pull the reserve, probably regardless of the size. Don't know about how low I would take it, and for sure wouldn't dock, but have seen a story where someone did it and was successful (I don't do crw either).my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #4 February 27, 2004 Well, I would go for their main, always leaving the reserve as last option. I'd pull them high, giving them as much time to wake up as possible....if I thought they were not going to wake, I'd dump them lower and hopefully in a safe area by the DZ. Would I go for the crew dock...yeah. You can't flare them, but they won't land any harder than they would being unconcious. As for how far I'd chase someone...I don't know. Just my thoughts.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #5 February 27, 2004 Too many movies. Dump the reserve (less likely to malfunction). Top dock them if you do CRW (it's been done). No you can't flare the bottom canopy but you can slow your speed & decide where to land them. Don't die. My dreams used to be about "going in" and getting up and walking away. Now there pretty much about really cool jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #6 February 27, 2004 Did that once, sorta. A woman on a dive I had organized lost her mind and just started spinning on her back. I docked on her and tried to flip her and deploy her main, but as we were approaching 3000 feet at the time, I just deployed her reserve. She landed OK with no idea what had happened. At the speed that stuff like this happens (which is suddenly, usually without warning) and at the speeds we're falling you have time to do maybe one thing, if you're really fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #7 February 27, 2004 QuoteI would say you have the hots for her. It is a her right? Never thought about it ... I really doubt I have the hots for her, but I've been wrong before. I slipped, I was trying to avoid gender in the post didn't want to bias any replies QuoteAnyway, I really like the idea of checking someone's pulse or slapping their face in freefall. I only have wierd skydiving dreams if I haven't jumps in a few weeks. What else are you going to do if you in effectively a 2 way with an unconscience jumper but slap them till you deploy them.. oh and yea its been MONTHS and I'm going NUTS been reading everything I can and getting together my first complete rig wont be back in the air again till april Would like more discussion of MAIN vs Reserve oh and I know that the only way I would be able to notice and do anythng about another free faller in trouble is if we left the plane together 2 way 4 way that sort of thing (I'm just too new and not skilled enough.. hell I dont think I remember seeing other jumpers while I'm in free fall .. other then my coach, I'm still a student so I leave last and pull high .. that might have something to do with it Edited to fix some typos Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #8 February 27, 2004 Like its said earlier, pull the reserve, less likely to malfunction. If the main malfunctions, you are extremely unlikely to be able to help them out. I would also pull as soon as I pulled him/her. I would pull him/her at the highest altitude possible, more time if something goes wrong. I would stay withing close range of their canopy, but wouldn't dock. This is probably the safest way I could handle this situation with my skill. Just my humble thoughts! Cool dreams though! I used to have nightmares of falling down an endless tunnel, and get real worked up about it. The night after my first jump, I dreamed all about it, and loved the idea of an endless tunnel! --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dnewcomer 0 #9 March 1, 2004 IMHO it would be extremely dangerous and probably inadvisable for an inexperienced skydiver (perhaps <30 jumps) to try to save an injured or unconscious skydiver by attempting to open his canopy. You might very well end up with two dead people instead of one. To attempt to save that unfortunate person would certainly be the most humanitarian thing to do, and it is understandable why you would wish to try. Trying to do such a thing would be similar to walking out on very thin ice alone to save someone who broke through. With more help and proper equipment, it could be a safe rescue. An inexperienced skydiver would not likely have the skills to do this safely. Moreover if the injured person has an AAD, it could possibly save them better without your help. Something might happen as you try to deploy the victims canopy that would cause an entanglement. Interesting story: once a 12 yr old boy fell into a cistern while playing around his home. Paramedics came on the scene to get him out. The family used the cistern to dump grass clippings -- as the clippings decomposed, they released toxic gases. No one knew about the toxic gases. There was not adequate oxyg. in the cistern, but two paramedics were suffocated and killed trying to save the 12 yr old boy -- who survived with permanent brain damage. Moral of the story: The first rule of saving people is, "Don't get additional people injured or killed in the process." It may seem cruel or barbaric to think this way, but people much smarter and wiser than I have determined that it is the best policy under these types of circumstances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #10 March 1, 2004 I agree on the AAD, however knowing that My instructor would hang it out to try and save me (even knowing I have an AAD) I couldn't not try to go after my coach (or anyone else I was close enough to reach if they looked completely out of it) and I knew they had no AAD, at my experience level the only diver I could reach is one I was exiting with so beyond that its a non issue. I'm curious just how much skill it takes to dock on an unconcious jumper and grab their Reserve handle (not making fun seriously asking) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #11 March 1, 2004 Advice taken. I will not try to save any jumper until I have more experience! lets just hope something like this never happens! I realize now what you are saying, after freefalling for the first time in 2 months yesterday. I was all over the place. Hopefully the tunnel in 2 weeks will help out! Cant wait! --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
