Pull Altitude, Hard Decks and Audibles

[Reginald 0]

Some interesting threads recently about audible settings, hard decks and pull altitudes got me wondering about all of these things in conjunction.

I believe the USPA recommends a minimum container opening (generally perceived as pull altitude) of 2,000 for C and D licensed skydivers. It also recommends, if I recall, a minimum hard deck of 1,800 feet for C and D licenses. These two don’t’ work together as nobody has a 200 foot snivel (nor do I want one!) on a regular sport rig.

I know of a highly, highly experienced skydiver that has a 1,000 foot hard deck and is comfortable pulling at 2,000.

Personally, my audible is set for break-off, my second alarm is set for 300 feet above where I want to pull (although I don’t rely on this, I count and use the audible as a second source of altitude information), I never pull below 2,500 (and prefer to pull at 3,000) and have a hard deck of 1,800 at which my third alarm is set. The interaction of the 2,500 foot pull with the 1,800 hard deck is a bit tricky. I consistently have an 800 foot snivel so I do hear my flat line when I pull at 2,500. It is usually just starting as my main finishes opening but I am grabbing for my handles just in case and will pull them if there is any doubt.

For the more experienced skydivers on the board what is your hard deck and how do you relate this to low pull altitudes? Do you ever really pull as low as 2,000? If so what is your hard deck? Where do you have your flat line set and why given the interaction of pull alt. and hardeck.

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Edited to add

To head off any misunderstanding here: My personal hard decks, etc. are all set with great consideration to my gear, the type of jumping I do, my experience level, my currency, the advice of my former instructors, my ST&A, the experienced jumpers that mentor me and a good heavy dose of common sense. I will not change anything I do based on what people say here. I am trying to probe other people thought process as a tool for edification for myself and others.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[JYorkster 0]

I have my audible set at Breakoff, Pull, and Harddeck. The associated altitudes are generally 4K, 3K, and 1500 ft. These may change depending on the nature of the dive.

I would not set my flatline altitude where you hear it on a regular basis, because you'll get used to hearing it. I want my flatline to be a wake-up call that I do not hear on a regular jump. Even when pulling at 2500, I do not hear my 1500 squeal.

Just my 2 cents,
Rock

[Reginald 0]

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I would not set my flatline altitude where you hear it on a regular basis, because you'll get used to hearing it.

Agreed.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

In the past few years we have seen a higher pull altitude as the norm. Mostly due to modern canopy design. They open slower and fly faster. Don't think many peoples hard deck would have changed though. You just have alittle more altitude to use till you get to your hard deck. I normally open a 3k but will open at 2k in certain situations. ie; large boogies. My hard deck is also lower than the 1800ft

[mnischalke 0]

I think you'd be best to answer your own questions based upon your comfort levels and performance of the gear you jump. What are you comfortable with? How much time do you need to make a decision, react and live with the consequences?

Does the highly experienced jumper you mention happen to BASE? Is he a rigger? What kind of canopy does he fly, how long does it take to open and is it prone to spin ups or other clearable mals?

Basing your personal limits on his is like me saying Mario Andretti drives really fast, so I am gonna drive just as fast.

Personally, I have set my limitations based upon my own experience level as well as both experience and intimate knowledge of my gear. My Samurai opens rather briskly, so I have had little issue riding on down to the bargain basement and pitching at around 2k. When I do go low, I am always in the saddle by right around 1.8k.

It seems, however, if something's gonna go wrong, it is more likely to happen at low opening altitudes. A few weeks ago, a buddy and I skid-hung a chopper from 5k. We tracked off, and I pitched at about 2.2k. I had a momentary bag-lock that cleared itself after adding four twists to the lines. It opened, and moments later I was spiraling. The good thing was that my awareness was peaked by the brief hesitation of the baglock, so I was clearing the line twists before the canopy was fully open. I had two twists kicked out before it started to spiral (even though the risers looked even). My momentum was enough to keep me moving as I kicked through the other two twists. The canopy settled out at 1.4k.

I won't mention my personal hard deck, but suffice to say that I was close to it. Had my momentum stalled or even slowed in the kicking out, I would have chopped it without regard to a number in my head. I figure I know I am in the red-zone below 2k, so if the first attempt to quickly fix my "slow-speed" problem doesn't work, CYA!

This probably does nothing as far as answering your questions, but I really think that the answers you seek are all inside your noggin anyway.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Reginald 0]

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Basing your personal limits on his is like me saying Mario Andretti drives really fast, so I am gonna drive just as fast.

I absolutely never did nor said that. VERY specifically my limits are set based on my abilities not his.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[mnischalke 0]

I read your edit. Thanks for the clarification.

My point was that a person should set his or her own limits based on the information that person possess at the time.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Nightingale 0]

my audible is set at breakoff, 500 feet below pull, and at my hard deck.

I like to pull at 4. I'm still very much a newbie and there's a lot about my canopy I want to learn, so I try to take a little time on each jump to play with it. I am comfortable pulling at 3.5 as well, but I like having extra canopy time.

My hard deck is 2500.

[FrogNog 1]

Yeah, I found the 2k container opening altitude too low for me as well. At around 150 jumps I started thinking I could pull at 2.5k all the time and it would be fine. Well, I had an "internal clock" issue on a twilight 3-way combined with a snivel and re-thought about it.

And what I came up with is altitude is a safety margin that I want. So I pull at the high end of the allowable standard range for traffic reasons, every time if possible, and damn the lost freefall time. If I snivel, open with twists, or screw up by 3 seconds, it's an exception and not a rule and there's a chance a hard deck of 2k is still below me.

And my audible? I don't have it on my helmet yet. I don't know where I'll set it for, either.

[diablopilot 2]

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I believe the USPA recommendsMANDATES a minimum container opening (generally perceived as pull altitude) of 2,000 for C and D licensed skydivers. It also recommends, if I recall, a minimum hard deck of 1,800 feet for C and D

So they, through logical reasoning recommend either: a) you jump a canopy that regularly opens in 200 feet or less from initiation of deployment, or b)pull higher than 2000 ft agl.

My personal hard deck (decision dltitude) is 1200 ft AGL on my normal sport rigs.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ReLLiK75 0]

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I never pull below 2,500

Sorry...I couldn't resist this one. But if you don't pull below 2500, do you just choose to ride it in? You must be one of the most resillient skydivers in the history of the sport!

__________________________________________
Have you Got Flare?

[dreamsville 0]

Unless you are on a jump where the break-off plan requires you to pull lower, I have always thought that 2500 to preferably 3000 is best, or even 3500 sometimes. I say this due to line twists or other problems I have had, albeit infrequently. 2500 may seem like a lot of altitude until one or more things go wrong.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[VisionAir 0]

I've just recently got the space for two audibles (one on each side) and I've set them for 5500, 3500, 1500, and 4500, 2500, 1500. I haven't jumped it yet so I can't comment on the alternate ear thing but both going off at my hard deck should definetly be a wake up call to be doing something.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[Reginald 0]

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I've just recently got the space for two audibles (one on each side) and I've set them for 5500, 3500, 1500, and 4500, 2500, 1500. I haven't jumped it yet so I can't comment on the alternate ear thing

I would like o hear how that works out. I've thought about 2 btu I wodered if hearing that many beeps would just confuse me.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[billvon 2,400]

> I've set them for 5500, 3500, 1500, and 4500, 2500, 1500. I haven't
> jumped it yet so I can't comment on the alternate ear thing . . .

Sounds like if you hear an alarm you will know you're somewhere between 5500 and 1500 feet. Not sure if that's an improvement or not.

[VisionAir 0]

One of my reasonings on this is that I don't want to try to keep up with what is what....only that if/when I hear beeps I need to be looking at my visual. And I figure a hard deck alarm being twice as loud ain't a bad thing.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[sundevil777 93]

5500, 3500, 1800

I don't often look at my visual in freefall.

I can tell with my eyes well enough that the audible has not made an error that matters.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am