Anvils Unite

[freakflyer9999 1]

Eagle Flight Skydiving, in Granbury, TX, just started charging a $12 "FAT FEE" (my term ) for experienced jumpers who are overweight. BTW, I weigh 280 lbs. They don't have the policy fully documented, but they were able to determine that I was in fact too fat to jump without paying the fee. Of course I was told about this new fee just as I finished putting my gear on to get on the plane.

Who else jumps at DZ's with similar fees?

I've heard of this for whuffo's making first jumps or tandems, but have never heard of it for experienced USPA D-Licensed jumpers.

In all fairness, the DZO did say that he would waive the fee if he didn't have another experienced jumper waiting to fill the fourth slot, had I not been on the load. I asked him if he currently had someone waiting and would I be charged the fee for this jump. He said he didn't know, that he wasn't running manifest. The next load (tandem) didn't even take off until after I landed and was in the hangar. The next experienced load did take off until a few mins after that, so apparently there weren't any jumpers ready to go up.

Of course, when I went to pay, the fee was on my account.

Also on my account was the credit from the previous weekend when I had volunteered to drive into town to buy the cookout supplies for the DZ and had paid out of my own pocket. He also didn't acknowledge that I had payed for the meal the week before voluntarily without asking for any money. Nor did he seem to remember that I had cooked both meals and supplied all of the beer on the most recent weekend because the DZO's private beer stash is off limits to all of the other jumpers. All of this to say that it's not like I'm someone who just shows up and takes without giving. I show up early and wait hours when the DZ is slow. Or even waited 10+ hours one day and was never put on a load because of the students, tandems and non-fat people.

I've been an active part of this DZ even when I was unable to jump due to waiting months to get a rig put together that fit me properly. Today was my first jump on the rig that I had been working on for months. I had made a few recurrency jumps on borrowed gear, but I was very excited about finally getting to jump my own gear after a couple of months of hanging out and watching everyone else jump.

Obviously, I'm quite ticked off, but I will get over it. Thought I would let folks know why.

Before anyone chimes in about my weight. I know I'm overweight. I took off from skydiving after my best friend bounced and I've put on weight. When I first started skydiving in 1994 it motivated me to lose almost 100 lbs. I am working on it and have lost 25 lbs. in the last few months. I will lose weight, but it really chaps my ass to be treated this way by someone who I thought was my friend.

[Praetorian 1]

$12 per jump? per day? once? I'm just curious

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Simple answer. find a new DZ. I my self am well... let just say "not slender". I have never heard of an experienced skydiver being charged extra just because they were large. If they don't want your business then don't give it to them. remember that the DZ IS a business and if people stop showing up to throw money through the manifest window then the owner gets to go back to flipping burgers.
Also, remember that your there to have fun. Not take shit about your size from some one your supporting financially. Just my two cents.
Kevin

[freakflyer9999 1]

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$12 per jump? per day? once? I'm just curious

$12 PER JUMP!!!!!!

[freakflyer9999 1]

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Simple answer. find a new DZ. I my self am well... let just say "not slender". I have never heard of an experienced skydiver being charged extra just because they were large. If they don't want your business then don't give it to them. remember that the DZ IS a business and if people stop showing up to throw money through the manifest window then the owner gets to go back to flipping burgers.
Also, remember that your there to have fun. Not take shit about your size from some one your supporting financially. Just my two cents.
Kevin

Already found a new Home DZ. See my post in "Events and Places to Jump" about Skydive Cowtown. Jumping starts there next weekend

[justinb138 0]

Tried Skydive Dallas? Can't beat the school-bus yellow otter..

[freakflyer9999 1]

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Tried Skydive Dallas? Can't beat the school-bus yellow otter..

Yea, I've tried Skydive Dallas. They don't charge a "Fat Fee", but the DZ manager did hassle me about my weight enough that I chose to jump other places. When I was trying to get recurrent this summer after a long layoff, Skydive Dallas once again gave me a hassle about my weight and caused me to look elsewhere for a home DZ.

With my own gear they might let me jump, but it is also 2+ hours away.

[darkwing 4]

You don't come out and say it, but reading between the lines it sounds like a Cessna DZ. In which case a big guy such as yourself (or me) actually displaces the 4th jumper on the load. That being the case, if in fact you are preventing another paying customer from being in the plane, I understand the DZO's position. That doesn't mean I like it, but I do understand the economic drive.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[freakflyer9999 1]

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You don't come out and say it, but reading between the lines it sounds like a Cessna DZ. In which case a big guy such as yourself (or me) actually displaces the 4th jumper on the load. That being the case, if in fact you are preventing another paying customer from being in the plane, I understand the DZO's position. That doesn't mean I like it, but I do understand the economic drive.

Yea, it is a 2 Cessna DZ and I could be eliminating a 4th jumper. But if I bump and the other jumper goes then it is still going with only 3 jumpers, unless there is actually two other jumpers to take my place. Of course there are also the days that there are only 2 other jumpers at the DZ and without me there wouldn't be a load at all.

Yesterday, when the DZO told me this. Manifest had just sent up a load of 3 non-fat jumpers and then didn't have a load of experienced jumpers other than my load until after I had landed and was packing. So it's not like the DZ is so busy and so organized that they don't have empty slots.

I've done some weight and balance numbers with a generic 182 (not the DZ's) and it would appear that it is possible for me to jump with a pilot and 3 other jumpers. It is close and might require a little effort to make sure that we don't have full fuel and 3 other big boys, but it is possible.

[MikeTJumps 4]

I understand your viewpoint, your concerns, and your being hurt by this policy.

I know both sides of this problem being a jump pilot as well.

Even the airlines are charging "fat fees" for folks that need that extra length seatbelt and take up two seats. The days of the FAA 170 pound standard passenger with 100 pounds of luggage are long gone.

I sit at 195 (60 pounds heavier than I started skydiving 27 years ago) and wish I could get back to 160. I have always been a "dense falling body" but now without large suits, I can't stay with a group (5'4" frame).

Please understand that the weight limits what the aircraft can handle (useful load, not body count by itself). The seatbelts limit what number of jumpers can be on board.

I sympathize and empathize, but I don't know how to resolve the situaion for you. Certainly, you had an insensitive DZO when it came to paying you for what you had done.

Mike Turoff
Instructor Examiner, USPA
Co-author of Parachuting, The Skydiver's Handbook

[freakflyer9999 1]

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I understand your viewpoint, your concerns, and your being hurt by this policy.

I know both sides of this problem being a jump pilot as well.

Even the airlines are charging "fat fees" for folks that need that extra length seatbelt and take up two seats. The days of the FAA 170 pound standard passenger with 100 pounds of luggage are long gone.

I sit at 195 (60 pounds heavier than I started skydiving 27 years ago) and wish I could get back to 160. I have always been a "dense falling body" but now without large suits, I can't stay with a group (5'4" frame).

Please understand that the weight limits what the aircraft can handle (useful load, not body count by itself). The seatbelts limit what number of jumpers can be on board.

I sympathize and empathize, but I don't know how to resolve the situaion for you. Certainly, you had an insensitive DZO when it came to paying you for what you had done.

I too am a pilot. I understand weight & balance and safety. I'm not asking to compromise safety or the pilot's certificate. I'm not asking to be paid for the things I do around the DZ. I guess all I'm really wanting is to be treated with a little respect and not treated like just another piece of meat to be hauled to 10,000 feet.

The DZO receives the financial reward or loss of the DZ. It is his business, but to be quite honest, I've never heard of another Cessna DZ charging similar fees and I can't imagine that this DZO who has owned his first DZ for less than a year knows more than the hundreds of DZO's before him.


Mike, I do appreciate your concern for my situation. I will resolve the situation myself, with my pocketbook and my feet. I've already found a new DZ home. Skydive Cowtown is opening this next weekend northwest of Ft. Worth. Scott Moore, the Skydive Cowtown DZO, has already welcomed me to his new DZ. He has promised that I won't be treated the same as at the previous DZ. I've known Scott for almost 10 years and I have known him to always care about other jumpers and the sport in general. Just this weekend since he had helped me put together my new rig, he called the DZ just to find out how my jump went, how it opened, etc.

[AggieDave 6]

Its not that you're taking the 4th slot, its the weight. Due to the weight the plane burns the same amount of fuel as 4 people in the plane. When you're 325-350 out the door, that is literally twice the weight of an average jumper. So an extra $12 is a very fair amount to cover the extra fuel burn. Or maybe you'd like the DZ to eat the extra cost when you jump due to your size?

3 normal sized folks in the plane burns less fuel and costs less to send.

Basically, I'm pretty amazed that you would come out on DZ.com and slander a good DZ like Eagle Flight instead of sitting down and talking to the DZO and the S&TA.

Joe and Doc are stand up guys, they would have been able to explain it in detail to you so you understood why.

Don't be surprised if Scott Moore does something similar if you start jumping out at his new DZ.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[drjump 0]

Mike--your comments of weight do not go far enough! Lets consider the center of gravity and the load factor on the airplane.
A C-182 (with wing-X extensions) has a gross wt. of 2950.0 lbs, empty wt. 1615.55#, useful load of 1334.45#. Use 200# each for pilot and four geared up jumpers and 240# of gas (40 gal). The plane is about 72# under gross and with in CG limits.
Cut the gas to legal minimum and replace one of the 200 # with a 350#+ jumper and the plane is 62.75# over gross, and out of CG. The Load Factor in flight is another whole story.

[Caseadilla 0]

First off "freekflyer" you didnt actually pay this fat fee. They compromised with you and took it off of your bill. Quit trying to make the DZOs look inconsiderate. You weigh 280 and then you jump a halo rig that weighs at least 50 pounds. Would you rather the DZ lose money just to keep you happy. I dont know what your deal is lately, are you on the rag?? Everyone at the dz has always been nice to you and your being a total prick. Yeah you did buy food which you were thanked for. And you did buy beer. Dont splurge so much next time, millwakees best is some high dollar shit. If you want it back its in the fridge. Quit whinning and trying to give the dz a bad name. We like fat people, just not ones who try and ruin peoples images. Your full of bad vibes man and nobody likes to be around that shit. Go take a walk and cool off. Eagle flight is a great dropzone with great people and its not gonna do any good to talk bad about them. Get a new hobby besides talking shit about people!

[thrillisgone25 0]

Look here, it is a simple lesson in economics. I am sorry you do not understand these simple principles of load organizing and operations. Regardless, please do not bad mouth my home DZ and skew the facts and events that transpired to make a point and to paint a victimized picture. I love jumping at Granbury, the skies are freindly and the people are too. I myself am a large jumper who has been bumped many times because of weight limitations and size restrictions that we all know exist with Cessna DZs, but I dont complain. Please do not post any other complaints. Also, never come back to Granbury. Thanks.

[thrillisgone25 0]

Thanks for the great words AggieDave. This is Terry, we meet at the Casa Boogie. I cant believe this guy saying what he did. Hope all is well in Aggieland.

Terry (LamaBoy)

[ne146t9 0]

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I dont know what your deal is lately, are you on the rag??

My first guess would be lack of sex....

[youngin17 0]

You rock Tracey!

[thrillisgone25 0]

No, you rock! This fucko is talking some major trash and it pisses me off. How is the AFA? ROTC is ok....
Look to jump with you soon.

Lamaboy

[Kris 0]

Yeah, and by trashing him that way you're just making yourselves look soooo much better.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[thrillisgone25 0]

go F yourself

[AggieDave 6]

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go F yourself

Bad choice dude. You'll end up getting this thread locked and getting yourself banned AND you're making yourself look really really bad.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kris 0]

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Bad choice dude. You'll end up getting this thread locked and getting yourself banned AND you're making yourself look really really bad.

No worries, Dave. They've shown their maturity levels quite nicely.

However, if these kids are indicative of how the mentality is at Eagle Flight now, then I think I'll be skipping the next Brazos Boogie.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[flyingace0 0]

Don't be surprised if Scott Moore does something similar if you start jumping out at his new DZ.

[flyingace0 0]

After posted my first and ever comment on this website, I finished reading the thread about the "fat fee". I am so embarassed!! I hope that people do not think that Eagle Flight is like what these few idiots portray. Most of the skydivers at Eagle Flight are wonderful, mature individuals. Just because some obviously very immature folks get on this website doesn't mean that's how an entire DZ thinks. This thread changed from a guy complaining about being charged for his weight (which I think is not fair, no matter what economics you argue) to some foul-mouthed younguns making a failed attempt to defend their DZ. Eagle Flight does not need to be defended. It's a great DZ. They just happen to have a rule about weight that some skydivers don't think is fair. It's very simple and not great enough to trash a guy and his sex life.

Where's the moderator?

Laura