mjosparky 3 #26 June 20, 2005 QuoteMost performances exit at around 5 grand, the spectators can see the exit and freefall without the aid of smoke. I'll burn freefall smoke if asked to, but that price is more...not only for the product itself but for the damage an opening canopy incurres...Jump YOUR main trailing smoke 10-20 times and see what ya think. I open high...3-4 grand, because you have a time slot to fill...open low and do a lot of radical maneuvers and you're done. The show would rather get more minutes for it's money. Lots of flags, banners & smoke under canopy... The crowd loves it, it's easy to see, and with proper gear and training is relatively safe. Land in a designated area STANDING UP... again, we're showing how safe the sport is, nothing screws it up more than femuring a landing or center punching some lady with a baby. There is a lot that goes into doing an airshow demo, I've seen LOTS of teams come and go... I'll say to you with respect and sincerity, if you want to give it a go, get your PRO rating, join ICAS, and market the act you think is best. Don't be a critic until you've spent some time in the arena with the lion. And that folks is the long and short of it. A demo is not about skydiving, it is a performance, a show, being done at the request of a sponsor. It’s about doing what the sponsor wants for the length of time he wants it done. It’s about smoke, flags, banners and every type of costume you can think of. It’s about jumping with up to 80/90 pounds of shit strapped to you and making it look easy. It’s about landing on time, on target, standing up without anyone getting scared or hurt. It’s about “Make a jump, get a check.” SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aj4218 0 #27 June 20, 2005 I was one of a few groundcrew on the first night civilian demo in the UK in the early 80s. It was at the Reading Rock Festival and due to take place just before the band UFO played, with the jumpers landing at the back of the open air arena. The cloud was fairly low (c. 3,500') and we were having real trouble spotting the Cessna. A mate of mine crewing suddenly shouts 'I've got it! There it is!'. A few seconds pass only for him to hear 'Er, no Steve, that's Concorde'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #28 June 20, 2005 QuoteNo, I'm not that fat. I stuffed a gear bag in the costumes belly. This is completely off-topic, but: I was in a plane recently with a competition swooper who was wearing weight while he was in training. A lot of weight. He had what looked like a couple of belts zipped up in the front of his jumpsuit. We were all cooing and rubbing his belly while he was on the floor and asking him when he was due, etc etc. The guy really did look like he was about five months pregnant -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #29 June 20, 2005 Lame demos? 1) How about a radio control airplane club field? It was fun for us, just because it was someplace different to land. And fun for the club and spectators to see a real plane overhead and real skydivers. But shouldn't they have had little bitty radio control skydivers? 2) One DZ operated temporarily out of a rancher's grass strip. A county baseball park was only about a quarter-mile away. After flying over those baseball diamonds for months, I talked everyone into doing a "demo" jump into an *empty* baseball park. Just for the heck of it. The crowd went wild! Um, well, they would have if there had been a crowd... I like lame demos. Any ol' excuse will do! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #30 June 24, 2005 What's ICAS? You mentioned something about joining them? Got a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. Oh joy, this is gonna be fun... Not to worry, I've done this same one two previous years, but it still scares me. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #31 June 24, 2005 What's ICAS? You mentioned something about joining them? Quote Billy~ "ICAS" is the "International Council on Air Shows" It...like "PAPA" the "Professional Airshow Performers Association" Are organizations that assist in putting performers with shows... Most of the larger shows tend to hire their acts through ICAS or PAPA... The airshow industry is huge...airshows are the second most attended sporting events nationwide. There are around 300 airshows a year in the US. It's becoming big money on many fronts, there are actually 'sponsored' acts that will PAY an organizer to be able to perform at their show! It's also some what of a 'good ole' boy' network... if you want to be considered for top shows you need to be a part of these organizations. Membership...advertising in the trade mags...attending the convention...roughly 7500-10,000 a year. Yearly demo insurance and expendables and you're at close to 20,000... So it gets to be an interesting gamble...you need to price your act so that you can cover these and all the other expenses, and yet be low enough to attract business. 10-12 shows is usually a break even point in the season, shows above that are 'profit' (if there is such a thing.) So, 'Joe D. Jumper' decides he wants to do airshows as a skydiving act because 'he' can do it better than everyone else. It's an investment in both money and time, likely considerably more of both that old 'Joe' ever imagined. 12 shows..the 'break even point' is 3 months of being gone Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon... Like any business it's a balancing act to stay in the market. Tear yourself up and you can't 'work'...kind of brings you back from the 'edge' when performing...I can't AFFORD to break my leg doing something that might impress a 'skydiver' in the audience. Tear up someone on the ground...and for the most part, you're through in the industry. Like I said is a relatively small network...and word gets around. I've seen a LOT of airshows...never saw a skydiving act I would consider 'lame' if everyone walked away and the 'customers' were clapping! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #32 June 24, 2005 >Got a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of >a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. Still has to be better than 672 people trying to hit a parade grounds in the middle of Bangkok with 20kt winds off the buildings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 174fps 1 #33 June 24, 2005 This is a framegrab of a demo we did into Edmonton last month. edited to add: this was my first Demo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #34 June 24, 2005 QuoteGot a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. I did one a few years ago like that into near-downtown Houston. One of our "outs" was a gymnasium rooftop: it was big and flat, without power lines... Oh and it was a *night* demo, with no moon. Fortunately, we didn't need the rooftop. I landed on the pitcher's mound with the game ball, and handed it to the University President standing there. Phew! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #35 June 24, 2005 QuoteThis is a framegrab of a demo we did into Edmonton last month. What is that dirt area used for? Other than a landing area for demo jumpers. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites YahooLV 0 #36 June 24, 2005 QuoteGive the guys a frickin break if they all landed safely and everyone walked away UNinjured. *** YUP! 99% of the spectators are thrilled just to see the exit-open-land type of demo. And ya can't impress that other 1% because they're jumpers...and no matter WHAT you do...they'll tell ya THEY can do it BETTER! Here Here! Anything esle is wasted on what the public doesn't know anyway! {Now, shut up and get outta my way, I'm trying to land this thing!}http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 174fps 1 #37 June 24, 2005 Quote What is that dirt area used for? Other than a landing area for demo jumpers. Sparky ball diamond we did another the next day into another ball park at the Rainmaker rodeo see attached Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #38 June 25, 2005 Quote>Got a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of >a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. Still has to be better than 672 people trying to hit a parade grounds in the middle of Bangkok with 20kt winds off the buildings. Hell yeah... I don't think I would have wanted to have been in the middle of that... One of my friends, Kathy Leslie, from Alabama, got hurt on that demo. Broke some bones and got quite a bit of road rash on the face. Had to miss the world record 357 way and go home with hubby Fred..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #39 June 25, 2005 >I don't think I would have wanted to have been in the middle of that... I wish I had a good picture of what that was like. Wide angle lenses just don't do it justice. It was almost like no-contact CRW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #40 June 25, 2005 This is the only picture I have from that demo. Fellow deaf skydiver Hiro Masuda, who happened to be the last person to dock on the 357 way, sent it to me. No, it really doesn't give you the feel of what that demo was like..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #41 June 25, 2005 Many spectators would appreciate seeing the bodies coming out of the airplane. A simple plan would be a four-way, with three guys opening around 4000' and the other taking it down to 2500' or so. Everyone would think he's in trouble. And be sure to get a competent PA announcer. I witnessed a demo once at which the PA guy was so boring I'd have quit jumping if I didn't know any better. "...You can tell the jumpers apart by the color of their parachutes..." Sigh. I was invited on a demo back in 1997, but had plans and couldn't make it. The following weekend I had a streamer & a cutaway to my round reserve. That's the pack job I would have jumped at the airshow. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #42 June 25, 2005 Everyone would think he's in trouble. And be sure to get a competent PA announcer... *** ~No on the first one... ...we want to promote the sport, not 'scare' the customers. A demo team I knew years ago would throw a 'dummy' out to impact out of sight line of the crowd...then have a rigged out 'jumper' come walking up dusting himself off like the coyote in a road runner cartoon. The act got more screams of horror than laughs. ~And YES most definitely to the second comment! The PA is 1/3 to 1/2 of the show if done correctly... The Golden Knights have it down to a science, they take turns (jumpers) on the mic...reciting the exact same speech, which is designed around every second of every segment of their jump. Interesting and educational! "Look high over head Ladies & Gentlemen...!" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,435 #32 June 24, 2005 >Got a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of >a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. Still has to be better than 672 people trying to hit a parade grounds in the middle of Bangkok with 20kt winds off the buildings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
174fps 1 #33 June 24, 2005 This is a framegrab of a demo we did into Edmonton last month. edited to add: this was my first Demo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #34 June 24, 2005 QuoteGot a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. I did one a few years ago like that into near-downtown Houston. One of our "outs" was a gymnasium rooftop: it was big and flat, without power lines... Oh and it was a *night* demo, with no moon. Fortunately, we didn't need the rooftop. I landed on the pitcher's mound with the game ball, and handed it to the University President standing there. Phew! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #35 June 24, 2005 QuoteThis is a framegrab of a demo we did into Edmonton last month. What is that dirt area used for? Other than a landing area for demo jumpers. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #36 June 24, 2005 QuoteGive the guys a frickin break if they all landed safely and everyone walked away UNinjured. *** YUP! 99% of the spectators are thrilled just to see the exit-open-land type of demo. And ya can't impress that other 1% because they're jumpers...and no matter WHAT you do...they'll tell ya THEY can do it BETTER! Here Here! Anything esle is wasted on what the public doesn't know anyway! {Now, shut up and get outta my way, I'm trying to land this thing!}http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
174fps 1 #37 June 24, 2005 Quote What is that dirt area used for? Other than a landing area for demo jumpers. Sparky ball diamond we did another the next day into another ball park at the Rainmaker rodeo see attached Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #38 June 25, 2005 Quote>Got a couple of demos this July 4th into a ballfield in the middle of >a city. No viable outs... land on the field or be screwed. Still has to be better than 672 people trying to hit a parade grounds in the middle of Bangkok with 20kt winds off the buildings. Hell yeah... I don't think I would have wanted to have been in the middle of that... One of my friends, Kathy Leslie, from Alabama, got hurt on that demo. Broke some bones and got quite a bit of road rash on the face. Had to miss the world record 357 way and go home with hubby Fred..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #39 June 25, 2005 >I don't think I would have wanted to have been in the middle of that... I wish I had a good picture of what that was like. Wide angle lenses just don't do it justice. It was almost like no-contact CRW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #40 June 25, 2005 This is the only picture I have from that demo. Fellow deaf skydiver Hiro Masuda, who happened to be the last person to dock on the 357 way, sent it to me. No, it really doesn't give you the feel of what that demo was like..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #41 June 25, 2005 Many spectators would appreciate seeing the bodies coming out of the airplane. A simple plan would be a four-way, with three guys opening around 4000' and the other taking it down to 2500' or so. Everyone would think he's in trouble. And be sure to get a competent PA announcer. I witnessed a demo once at which the PA guy was so boring I'd have quit jumping if I didn't know any better. "...You can tell the jumpers apart by the color of their parachutes..." Sigh. I was invited on a demo back in 1997, but had plans and couldn't make it. The following weekend I had a streamer & a cutaway to my round reserve. That's the pack job I would have jumped at the airshow. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #42 June 25, 2005 Everyone would think he's in trouble. And be sure to get a competent PA announcer... *** ~No on the first one... ...we want to promote the sport, not 'scare' the customers. A demo team I knew years ago would throw a 'dummy' out to impact out of sight line of the crowd...then have a rigged out 'jumper' come walking up dusting himself off like the coyote in a road runner cartoon. The act got more screams of horror than laughs. ~And YES most definitely to the second comment! The PA is 1/3 to 1/2 of the show if done correctly... The Golden Knights have it down to a science, they take turns (jumpers) on the mic...reciting the exact same speech, which is designed around every second of every segment of their jump. Interesting and educational! "Look high over head Ladies & Gentlemen...!" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
