Women's Class

[amy 0]

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I understand that when the rule was passed to allow the womens' class to have a male camera flyer until the cut off date was to allow more women to hone their skills as camera flyers,

I've always thought this was kind of a strange argument. If a country with very few female skydivers asked to have a man flying inside center for them because "there just aren't enough good female 4-way flyers in our country," that would seem silly. We would expect that team to find a woman in their country who wanted to do 4-way, and train them as a member of the team. The same expectation should go for the camera flyer.

As I recall, the decision to award a medal to the camera flyer along with the rest of the team was a recognition that they were as much a member of that team as the other 4 people, and that they deserved credit for that. If we still believe that, then the camera person on an "all-female" team should be female.

Amy




(Edited to remove my incorrect assumptions about cameramen and awards)

[amy 0]

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There is only one team from each country that gets to go to the world meet, so a female class allows for more people to be exposed to this, which is awesome.

While I agree with you that it's cool that more people get to compete at the world level, using the all-female category to get them there seems a little unfair. The unintended consequence is that the bar is a little lower for women to go to the world meet than it is for men. If we want to make more opportunities for skydivers to go to the world meet, let's make it an equal opportunity for everyone by setting up an intermediate event, or allowing 2 teams from each country to go.

Skydiving is one of the few athletic endeavors where women can compete on an equal footing with men. Let's not imply that we can't by having a "special" category for women.

Amy

[rehmwa 2]

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award a medal to the camera flyer along with the rest of the team was a recognition that they were as much a member of that team as the other 4 people, and that they deserved credit for that.

I like your other points a lot about diluting the impression that a separate class can have.....

To the above - The camera flyer is as much responsible for the "team learning progress and scores of the team at meets". DEFINITELY. Teammate is a subjective term but here's my take:

We've had teammate cameramen that paid their own slot and we planned training to also include their own skills progression, and they participated in the debriefs, including discussing their own performance just each of us flyers. We all improved together. They were definitely teammates on equal footing all around.

We've had cameraman that got slot, or slot plus pack, and they were 'teammates' but clearly not in the same way. They were more like valued contractors that we drank with and invited to the team parties.

It was a definite difference in the feel of the dynamics though. The first earned his medal. The other did his job and got a medal, anyway.

(both were great friends and hugely contributed to the team, FWIW)

Does that make sense?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[amy 0]

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It was a definite difference in the feel of the dynamics though. The first earned his medal. The other did his job and got a medal, anyway.

(both were great friends and hugely contributed to the team, FWIW)

Does that make sense?

Yes it makes sense, but my point is that USPA (but not IPC, as a competitor has pointed out to me) has decided that the camera person is enough a part of the team that they deserve a medal. The dynamics of your particular team may differ, but that's been the determination on the national level.

It's also the reason we require the camera flyer to be from the US (there's a skilled camerawoman at Perris with that exact issue - she's from the UK and wants to pick up a 4-way team for Nationals, but her citizenship will mean that the team competes as a guest). It seems a little inconsistent to say that gender doesn't matter, but country of origin does. Just my opinion, of course.

Amy





(Edited for factual inaccuracies)

[brierebecca 0]

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There are female swoopers now that are competing(there were some at the CPC finals). Next year I expect there will be more.

It's as inclusive as YOU make it But chosing to sit on the sidelines only isolates yourself - no one else.

Quit beating up on me Ian. I never said I chose to sit on the sidelines (quite the opposite, in fact). And I don't think that women should get to the world meet through a women's class or anything. I just was saying that I would consider competing in a women's event more seriously because women are a minority in this sport, and it's fun to meet them. And if women's classes will bring more women to compete and meet eachother, then I support them wholeheartedly.

It's not about segregation, at least to me. I couldn't care less if women do better because they're only competing with other women, or if that's fair or not. Skydiving is about having fun, and many of our competitions are new and experimental anyway. And despite the fact that you take your competitions very seriously, I don't think I'd have as much fun if I did. This is not about the ladies doing better when they compete against eachother. It's not about them doing well at all, or whether women are just as able to compete on a level with men in skydiving. I just think it's great to get the ladies out there competing, and if having women's events will encourage that, then I'm all for them.


Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[Conundrum 1]

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Really? Are you serious?

Like Kel said, if there was no WNBA, almost no women would be playing pro basketball. With no LPGA, almost no women would have a career in golf. Same for soccer, tennis, beach volleyball, hockey, running, bowling, cycling, etc, etc.

Yes, I'm serious. I don't really consider womens "pro" sports teams to be "pro" sports teams, either.

Yeah, you're good enough to play pro....... in the womens league. That's just something I wouldn't be interested in doing, I don't like seperating myself, if I'm not good enough to play something with men, I don't really have an interest in playing at all.

Just my opinion.

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