Manufacturer based product and safety training

[Trae 1]

In the wingsuiting world both PhoenixFly & Birdman Int. have regimens involving the training of users of their products by their respective accredited instructors. This obviously also works as a good marketing tactic.

If you have between 200 & 500 skydives it is highly recommended that you receive training from the accredited instructors in the use of both these companies wingsuits.

Most DZ's will insist on it or something very close.
500 jumps or over and you can be trusted to train yourself...mostly..... apparently. The line had to be drawn somewhere and it all appears to work OK.

It appears that something similar could work very well for the manufacturers of high performance canopies. It would also work well to raise canopy control safety standards if handled responsibly.

The wingsuiting jump number recommendations have become generally accepted almost as rules. They are certainly a good rule of thumb....somewhere decent to start from.

If the major canopy manufacturers did this accredited instructor thing as well it would show a similar degree of care as PhoenixFly and Birdman int show for the users of their products. These PFI's & BMI's are all round the world happily training away......mostly.

It would be reasonable to expect that you are going to be given sufficient training input if you are sold something as high in performance as the modern HP canopies.... in a caring community such as ours ......surely.

Are there enough responsible and sufficiently skilled HPcanopy pilots out there willing to instruct potential buyers?
PDI's any-one? How about Aerodyne Chief Instructor.? or ?????

Got a ring to it????

[LawnDart21 0]

I think the reason the wingsuit training works is because, compared to how many HP canopies are sold each year, there are considerably less wingsuits being sold. (that my change over time of course). Wingsuit buys are a smaller group than HP canopy buyers.

HP manufacturers do have some criteria for purchase at the moment. If I wanted to buy a VX today, I would need 1000 jumps according to manufacturer recommendations, and while I cant speak for Icarus directly, I know PD will call DZOs, instructors, etc to get a recommendation/assessment of the buyers ability.

The problem with that method of course is aftermarket/used canopy sales between jumpers.

I think a viable solution for jumping any canopy above a certain wing loading is to require a modified version of the Pro Rating pertaining to HP canopies. Prior to purchase of an HP canopy above a certain wing level (Lets arbitrarily pick say 1.6). The jumper must perform 10 controlled landings within a certain distance of a target. Like a pro rating, the jumps would be predeclared and observed by the S&TA or some other arbitrary/rated person (preventing the jumpers friend from just siging off the landings.

Not a perfect solution, but maybe it could work.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Most DZ's will insist on it or something very close.
500 jumps or over and you can be trusted to train yourself...mostly..... apparently. The line had to be drawn somewhere and it all appears to work OK.

One very important thing we have talked about before and should be repeated. Once a rule is put into place, people will bitch about it. Then, people accept it.

Interesting enough when the WS came out they required 500 jumps before you could jump them. After a while the "regulations" changed and the wanted you to get instruction if you had less than 500 jumps. (BTW when I did my first WS jump I had 3500 jumps and STILL took a class and jumped with an Instructor).

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If the major canopy manufacturers did this accredited instructor thing as well it would show a similar degree of care as PhoenixFly and Birdman int show for the users of their products. These PFI's & BMI's are all round the world happily training away......mostly.

Not a bad idea....I think it should come form the USPA however.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[riggerrob 558]

(BTW when I did my first WS jump I had 3500 jumps and STILL took a class and jumped with an Instructor).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I had over 4,000 jumps and still listened to a Birdman Instructor for an hour before trying a wingsuit.

[riggerrob 558]

Great concept!
Too bad skydivers can always find a way around any rule.

When Performance Designs first introduced the Stiletto, they tried to limit it people with more than 500 jumps. That only worked for the first few months .. until skygods started selling second-hand Stilettos.
Then the next thing we knew, senior jumpers were buying Stilettos for junior jumpers.
Then the next thing we knew, junior jumpers were lying to telephone salesmen (at Square One) about their jump numbers, etc.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "Too bad skydivers can always find a way around any rule. "
........

yeah it would seem that its a bit like holding back the tide....unecesssary if you live on the high ground.
Where are our governing bodies on this issue? Obviously having a bit of a snooze.

It sounds like the manufacturers are at least trying .

If they did do somethinglike the BMI/PFI thing lots of highly skilled people could be recruited to help them sell their canopies. Each DZ would want to have at least one acredited HP canopy instructor.

Some manufacturers may even see the potential for enhancing their high performance image if their canopies are so hot that special training is needed.

Of course there will most likely always be some skydivers mainly concerned with bypassing common sense.

In a slightly more responsibly regulated scene such dankerous leetle law breakers would tend to stick out a bit more than they do now.

It could be the responsibility of the HPcanopy Instructors to keep a handle on things.

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