Infrequent Jumping

[ChadFlorian 0]

I'd like some opinions on something...

Due to an essentially busy life, I have not been able to make it out to the dropzone as frequently as I would like. I find myself going months at a time without a jump lately...

I feel that maybe this sport is too dangerous to be doing so infrequently. I've only been jumping a short time and I feel completely out of touch with the sport compared to when I started. I think maybe I've also lost a bit of the excitement I used to have for jumping which is why maybe I don't make the effort to get out as much...

So... How frequently should one be jumping to really be safe? I know for B license holders, it's 90 days, yada yada, but I'm curious if there are other jumpers out there who don't get out regularly but still continue jumping...

Thoughts?

[Ron 7]

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So... How frequently should one be jumping to really be safe?

Short answer....Depends on the person.

Long answer:

1. Depends on the person . If you have 8,000 jumps, you can go long periods and might be safe. If you have 100 or so, its not a good idea to go mths without a jump. The trick to this is to know you will not have your "A" game and not push it. If you go a year without jumping and then try to jump your tiny "go fast" canopy on the first jump back while doing a 100way....Well you will be asking for trouble.

2. Depends on the dive. If you are not current you should not get on a big RW load. If you are really not current you should only jump with Instuctors or do solos, if you are *really* uncurrent you should only jump with Instructors.

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I feel that maybe this sport is too dangerous to be doing so infrequently

And you would be correct.

How many Golden Knights, Airspeed members, or other 500-1000 jump a year people do you know that die in this sport? A few yes, but most of those were really pushing the envelope.

In my opinion, being current is THE safest thing you can do in this sport...Not having an AAD or RSL, or having tunnel, or cool gear...Jumping is the best way to be safe in this sport.

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How frequently should one be jumping to really be safe?

Thats a question you have to answer for you. The BSR's are the MINIMUM in my opinion.

Personally I don't feel right unless I jump a few times a mth, and the longest I have ever gone without a jump was 3 mths due to the Army. I was not worried since I had 1500 jumps at the time and I did a simple two way to get back into the saddle.

I would say that if you are not going to be "in" the sport, don't be in the sport. Its not like SCUBA diving where you can go on one dive trip a year and be in it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Airman1270 0]

Ah, the one aspect of the sport about which I am an expert...

Don't fret. Jump when you can. Just keep the dives within the parameters of your ability. I have been jumping sporadically for 23 years. It's not any more dangerous than what the others are doing, as long as you don't try anything beyond your current level of expertise.

Also, a dirty little secret: Large canopies rock! There's no shame in landing last. Besides, you get to hang out and enjoy the view much longer. Isn't this one of the reasons you started jumping in the first place?

Cheers,
Jon S.

[Inthebuff 0]

I did my Aff in July plus my conso's plus another 10 so that was 29 in total.

The next time I jumped was in September when I did another 12.I would have done more but I had a down wind landing on a Sabre 2 210 and I really feel that I was lucky to walk away with my neck intact

I did 10 mins tunnel time in November and then did 6 jumps in January.I planned to do about 20 this time but the weather was Minging.

I have 20 mins tunnel time booked in April and the next time I jump will be in June when I'll finnish my FS1.

This is hardly what you would call current !

I live in the UK and I choose to jump in Spain.

I have waited nearly 20 years to Sky Dive having done 2 static lines on rounds in 1987.

Once I have my own Rig by the end of the year I plan to jump more regularly, hopefully every six or so weeks, but again it will be in Spain or where ever the weather is good.

I enjoy sky diving in this way,not jumping for several months and then banging in 20 or 30 odd over several days in the Sun

I get that nervy kind of feeling all over again for that first jump and then I have it Big Style.

I am very safety concious.Before my first jump I always put on a practise cut away harness before I jump and I have a good chat with my instructor.
I always get a gear check and check everything's where it should be before I go out the door.
I read up loads,especially on this top Web site and there are plenty of quality informative DVD's like Break Away to keep you focussed during that down time.

Where I jump, AAD's are compulsery, as are RSL's for students.
I usually jump a Navigator 220 which is about as safe as you can get.

I plan to spend the next 20 or so years in this wonderful sport.

I haven't road a bike for ages, but I know I can.

Just Arch
I Love it.

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Fly Like Zie Eagle, Not Like Zie Chicken !
Good advice from an instructor I know.

[ChadFlorian 0]

Thanks for the feedback everyone....

I'm headed out tomorrow hopefully... I think I just need to make sure I get out more often. Even if it's just to do solo's.

Blue skies!
-Chad

[darrenspooner 0]

I've been doing one or two jumps about once every 6 weeks. No problems. I go straight down, open high, play around with my canopy and land straight in. I also jump at a DZ where there's not much to crash into, on the ground or in the air. I don't see why infrequency should be a problem. If you are current in your head about emergency drills, canopy handling, being safe, and being confidence, and as lond as your JM knows what you're doing, I can't see why there should be a problem

[adobelover 0]

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Also, a dirty little secret: Large canopies rock! There's no shame in landing last. Besides, you get to hang out and enjoy the view much longer. Isn't this one of the reasons you started jumping in the first place?
Cheers,
Jon S.

Thank you...my thoughts exactly!

_________________________________________


Old age ain't no place for sissies!

[Ron 7]

Heres the thing:

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The next time I jumped was in September when I did another 12.I would have done more but I had a down wind landing on a Sabre 2 210 and I really feel that I was lucky to walk away with my neck intact

If you were more current, do you think this would have happened?

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Where I jump, AAD's are compulsery, as are RSL's for students.
I usually jump a Navigator 220 which is about as safe as you can get.

My opinion: Currency is better than an AAD, RSL or big canopy.

Its good you take all the extra precautions, but the only real way to be safe skydiving is to skydive often and not push it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Inthebuff 0]

Ron,I agree entirely with your views on being current.
The next time I go to Spain I'm confident I'll get my A Licence.As things stand, I've got a log book with 50 jumps in it.
Once I have my A Licence I won't have any problems jumping in the UK.
This will take me down the path of being a current jumper I reckon.
I will however do most of my jumping in Spain or some other sunnier climb.
Cheap flights abroad make it affordable to travel regularly.

One more thing.Yeh sure I landed down wind and I'll never get the T mixed up again.
I did the right thing and stuck with what I had and landed it,my training taught me that.( No turns on Final )

***********************************
Fly Like Zie Eagle, Not Like Zie Chicken !
Good advice from an instructor I know.

[L.O. 0]

I'm 100% with Ron. I know it's easy to say when you are super current, all the time, but it's experience talking. As a 15 yr vet (in May) I have seen them come and go. The ones that make you grit your teeth are the uncurent ones, it's scary. If you can stick to your training even with these long breaks more power to ya. But it is not easy to remember some of this stuff. When your not current you are a random. Randoms are not that easy to deal with in this sport. I spend a lot of time with this type of skydiver, because I don't like to put others, with lesser skills with them. I love to see people go on a skydive and learning a ton each time. but when they learn the same ton ofstuff every two or three mo it gets kind of sad. You will never advance in the sport if you make 15 or 20 jumps a year you will continue to learn the same lessons over and over forever. I try to help the low timer as much as I can but when they come out one weekend every two months it is hard to commit your time and money for them. I don't want to short anyone so I jump with them anyway but I just do it hoping that this will be the turning point and they will become a hardcore skydiver after this jump.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[skyblu3 0]

In my opinion 'currency' is not about how often you jump. I jump sporadically becuse of lack of a drop zone in my country but I don't consider myself uncurrent. This is because I try as best I can to keep myself involved in the sport, I take my rig out, pack it, practce my EP's at least once a month. I watch videos almost daily, read the forums and subscribe to all the magazines. Not a single day goes by where I am not thinking of jumping.

I currently have 300 jumps, my longest layoff was 2 years. On that first jump after 2 years without jumping I went up and did a 2-way FS jump, turned loads of points and did a tip toe landing in the peas with my Stilletto 150. It was as if I had never stopped jumping.

[Ron 7]

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In my opinion 'currency' is not about how often you jump

No offense, but thats *exactly* what it is. You cannot be "current" if you have not jumped in a while. You can be "aware", but not current.

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I take my rig out, pack it, practce my EP's at least once a month. I watch videos almost daily, read the forums and subscribe to all the magazines. Not a single day goes by where I am not thinking of jumping.

While all of that is nice, none of that is skydiving. And the only way to stay current is to jump out of a plane.

How current is "current" depends on the person. I have seen people who can go long breaks without a serious degradation in their skills. I have also seen people take a mth off and take a step back.

All of the "other" things you do helps, but that will never make you current. Thats like saying a person who has all the magazines, reads all the forums, and knows how to pack already does not need a First Jump Course.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[krkeenan 0]

There has been shown to be a direct correlation between currency and overall safety. Also, it is an accepted fact that more overall experience makes currency less of a factor in safety, although it still plays a part.

Having said that, since we are dealing with people, all bets are off when you try to pin it down too closely. Everyone is different, as has been stressed in this thread. Just be aware that skills degrade with time.

I also agree with Ron, that no matter how many times you throw a pilot chute across your living room or wear your rig while watching video, jumping is jumping, and is the ONLY way to stay current.

Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[Eduardo 0]

I haven't jumped in 10 years but I watch fandango every other weekend to stay current

[skyblu3 0]

My point was keeping yourself involved in the sport. If you drive away from the drop zone and never think about skydiving until 3 months later when you are driving back to the dz then that's the worst kind of uncurrent you can be.

[Airman1270 0]

...But it is not easy to remember some of this stuff...
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Wrong. You will advance. Not as quickly as the guys showing up every weekend, but you will learn this.

You will learn much faster if you have an occasional chance to jump with these guys, rather than spend your time doing solos or small-ways with other people at your skill level.

A DZ I used to jump at turned into this. One guy was a very talented load organizer. Many of the best jumpers gravitated to this group. They made quality skydives. The rest of us were mostly left to teach each other. Even at 30-70 jumps per year, I would have learned to fly much sooner if I had had more opportunities to be the least experienced guy on the load, without being made to feel like I was wasting everyone's time.



...When your not current you are a random. Randoms are not that easy to deal with in this sport. You will never advance in the sport if you make 15 or 20 jumps a year you will continue to learn the same lessons over and over forever...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Wrong. It took me nine years to make 200 jumps (including ten months between jumps #1 & 2 after breaking my ankle on my first.)

I never placed myself into situations I was not ready for. I didn't fly very well, but I WAS improving. Being a non-current novice never posed a threat to myself nor to anybody else. In fact, it was during this time that I kept my head in an emergency and got my reserve out very low following a very hard ripcord pull. It was my first jump in six weeks and my second in five months.

You seem to be saying that anyone who cannot commit to jumping regularly should not jump at all. SKYDIVING recently ran an editorial discussing declining USPA membership numbers.

I believe the current DZ culture, which encourages strict definitions of "currency," is sending such a message to people who show up for that first jump and are thinking about jumping again. They are told, in so many words, that if they don't commit to the sport full-time and make at least several jumps a month that they will be in over their heads and die.

They do a quick cost/benefit analysis and return home to watch their video, thinking "Damn I'd sure like to do that again someday..."


Cheers,
Jon S.

[Ron 7]

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Wrong. You will advance. Not as quickly as the guys showing up every weekend, but you will learn this.

Wrong. It depends ont he person. Some lose everything in a few mths. But a degradation in skill does happen, you just may not notice it.

I just started my team this year. It took me 50ish jumps to feel back in the groove after only recreational jumping since the Nats. The more current you are and the more experienced you are, the easier it is to see the rust.

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A DZ I used to jump at turned into this. One guy was a very talented load organizer. Many of the best jumpers gravitated to this group. They made quality skydives. The rest of us were mostly left to teach each other. Even at 30-70 jumps per year, I would have learned to fly much sooner if I had had more opportunities to be the least experienced guy on the load, without being made to feel like I was wasting everyone's time.

But that is the nature of the sport. Why should everyone else that shows up and works really hard to do good jumps, bring you along when you don't have the same comitment?

It would be like the World Team taking a few folks with 100 jumps along just to be nice. It is contrary to the goal, and they might not have gotten the 400 way.

If you want to be on the "good loads", then you need to be good enough. It is a hard, cruel lesson, but its the way it is. I don't see Airspeed putting me into slot at the World Meet just to be nice.

If you want to do better jumps, work with an organizer to get better.

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You seem to be saying that anyone who cannot commit to jumping regularly should not jump at all. SKYDIVING recently ran an editorial discussing declining USPA membership numbers.

I believe the current DZ culture, which encourages strict definitions of "currency," is sending such a message to people who show up for that first jump and are thinking about jumping again. They are told, in so many words, that if they don't commit to the sport full-time and make at least several jumps a month that they will be in over their heads and die.

But there *IS* a connection between being current and being safe. How many jumpers that make 500-1000 jumps a year do you see dying?

It is hard to admit, but unless you *do* jump a bunch, your skills are not as sharp. Thats not BS, thats fact and currency is very important in gear dependant high risk sports. I used to help people get current SCUBA diving, and there was a LARGE degradation in their skills from one "trip" to the next.

As an AFF I I see people who last I saw them were doing very well. Then after a few mths they come back and we have to start back at the basics.

Currency is important. "current" depends on the person, but uncurrent equals unsafe.

That is not to say that it can't be done, but you are at a higher risk than a current jumper.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Reginald 0]

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... In fact, it was during this time that I kept my head in an emergency and got my reserve out very low following a very hard ripcord pull. It was my first jump in six weeks and my second in five months.

Getting a reserve out “very low” is a failure not a success. It could have been a worse failure, obviously.

My concern with un-current jumpers is not around their flying skills but instead is around EP’s. This is particularly true for unusual situation/malfunctions.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[HeatherB 0]

I think he meant he had a low deployment because of a hard pull on his reserve ripcord. (not because he had a hard pull on his main and didn't go for his reserve until really low)

As an aside, personally I would just stop jumping completely if I could only do 20 jumps a year. We're not playing tiddly-winks!

Chad -- I hope you can get out to the DZ more often. I'm sure it's hard with the kids, work and whatever else you have going on. But as you jump more often, that desire to jump will be rekindled and you will be a much safer skydiver. Summer is approaching....maybe you can sneak out of work a little early every once in a while for weekday sunset loads!

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[Stacy 0]

I personally have lef tthe sport (whether temporary or not I dont know) due to not being as current as I'd like. The first few years I jumped I was ridiculously current. as in 200+ jumps/year, jumping 3+x/week. Life and money took over and it just wasn't feasible to do that anymore. Luckily I'm smart enough to know that, and realize the sport will always be there if my life permits it again. Skydiving is great fun, but not fun enough to make me be an unsafe statistic. It's important to note that not being safe in te sport effects more than just one person, but everyone around you on the ground and in the air.

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[kelpdiver 2]

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But there *IS* a connection between being current and being safe. How many jumpers that make 500-1000 jumps a year do you see dying?

I asked you before - how many such people exist?

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It is hard to admit, but unless you *do* jump a bunch, your skills are not as sharp. Thats not BS, thats fact and currency is very important in gear dependant high risk sports. I used to help people get current SCUBA diving, and there was a LARGE degradation in their skills from one "trip" to the next.

Well, you are in Florida, a WWW destination. Odds are great that for most of these people, their OW training was shit. And they're going a year or 3 befween trips.

All other things being equal, more currency equals a safer jump. Jumping a high wing loading requires a minimum frequency of jumping. Same for swoopers. Or jumping in larger groups.

Performance is very different from safety as well. To be competitive, you have to do a much higher rate of jumping, but that's not about safety.

[Reginald 0]

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I think he meant he had a low deployment because of a hard pull on his reserve ripcord. (not because he had a hard pull on his main and didn't go for his reserve until really low)

Hmm, if that's the case than Bravo!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[HeatherB 0]

If a jumper comes screaming towards a formation and takes someone out, would you consider that a "performance" or "safety" problem?

I'm thinking it's both! And it's much more likely to happen if you're uncurrent.

[Ron 7]

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I asked you before - how many such people exist?

More than you would think, less than there could be.

But how many is not the point. The more you do an event the safer you are (unless you cut corners).

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All other things being equal, more currency equals a safer jump.

Yes clearly.

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Performance is very different from safety as well. To be competitive, you have to do a much higher rate of jumping, but that's not about safety.

Yes, but safety is performance. It may not be points in time or how good you swoop. But what about performance in dealing with an Emergency? Or making sure not to over swoop and hit someone, or as you said canopy control?

Its not just about burning up the sky, its about not burning in.

And I very much doubt that anyone can prove that you are going to perform safer being uncurrent than current.

The best way to stay fit for diving is to dive regularly-Adventures in SCUBA Diving.

I think that fits in everything.

Being current allows you to be comfortable. That allows you to make faster choices, and execute those choices faster and with more precision.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Andy9o8 0]

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If a jumper comes screaming towards a formation and takes someone out, would you consider that a "performance" or "safety" problem?

I'm thinking it's both! And it's much more likely to happen if you're uncurrent.

Agreed; but then, that person shouldn't be jumping with a "formation" (or swooping, or jumping a Velo, etc.) if he's not sufficiently current.
I disagree that there's no place in the sport for people who make only 20 or so jumps a year; I think there is a place for them. But then those people need to "ease back into" their jumps when they go to the DZ, i.e., do a couple of 2-ways until they get their sea legs back, put themselves back in the harness to refresh their EP's, be conservative with opening altitude, canopy choice and flying, etc. However I don't think an all-or-nothing approach to the issue needs to be applied.