When will we start to learn?

[phantomII 36]

After every accident or fatality a lot of people are asking for information about this incident, so that we may learn from it.

But looking at the incidents of the last years. When has there been an incident that was not avoidable by the application of already available information?
What is there to learn from the most recent incidents? Don't turn too low, execute your EP correctly and in time, stay altitude aware, don't do stupid things.

I know, sometimes people die doing everything right, but these are not the ones I'm talking about.

So, why are we discussing in INCIDENTS about improving safety if we are not willing to use and apply available information?

Max

[topper 0]

I agree, but what we don't hear about are the "non-incidents" that have been avoided because someone has read about a previous incident and then changed their way of thinking and learnt from someone elses mistakes.

If they are talked about and 1 person lives because of it, surely it's a good thing right?

Chris

[slotperfect 7]

On August 9th, 1991, a close friend died due to a free fall collision. Without going deep in the weeds, two things besides the collision caused his death: not diving the plan (the formation didn't build and there were three or four "sympathy" formations), and his AAD was intentionally disabled (turned off).

The details of the accident are not as important to this post as the results it had for me. You see, I was doing very similar things at the time, young and talented, caught up in the excitement of the adrenaline rush, and feeling rather invincible. At almost the same time of day I was doing a demo from 2000 feet, having never exited that low before, jumping a borrowed canopy I had never jumped before, with the aircraft dodging a broken cloud layer. We were pushing it, and we knew it. One of my mates stayed on the plane. That day I lived and he died - but it could very easily have been the other way around.

Several of the guys we were jumping with at the time were shit hot, and I was determined to be like they were. The key was that I did not have the wisdom or experience that they had, and did not have the patience to get it. Sound familiar?

I changed that day. I determined to focus on safety and longevity from that point on. As a result I am a safer, more conscientious, and conservative jumper because of what I learned from my friend's death. It was the only way I was able to find peace while trying to somehow make sense of the tragedy. Since that day I have continued to learn, adapt, and improve myself as a skydiver. I hope I never "arrive." I strive to keep my list of dead skydiving friends from getting any longer.

I can thank my friend for that - I do it out loud under canopy sometimes when the spot is such that I fly my canopy over the place he went in.

If we don't learn and apply for ourselves and others the lessons learned from our dead friends, we miss out on the potential value that those lessons can provide. I will never consider my friend's death as being "worth it" because of the people like me that changed that day, but I believe that if the lessons we learned from it save one life, they were worth the time and pain of learning.

Arrive Safely

John

[Guest 1010]

non-indidents aren't posted. By reading the incidents forum (especially as a newb) you should get an appreciation for chains of events and how things can add up. One of mine (that could only have been part of a chain anyway) was this - last winter I was up early getting ready for the trip to the dz, I had a really strong urge to turn on my AAD just to get that step done. Never felt that before or since. Didn't turn it on of course, being mindful of the SoCal incident two years ago, and said a little prayer thanking Adria (whom I never met) for keeping an eye out over us.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Mr17Hz 1]

Quote

I know, sometimes people die doing everything right, but these are not the ones I'm talking about.

I would encourage you to read my only post in the WFFC 2K6 incident thread, however I will review my point in here because I think this is something we need to consider:

Any time a student indicent takes place, or someone on very low jump numbers, or a legitimate equipment failure causes an incident... It is indeed worth pulling apart the incident and in some cases even speculating on what *might* have happened... Because these are cases where the jumper's life *wasn't* 100% in their control.

HOWEVER, many times I see incidents posted, that happened by people with 1,000+ jumps, who were jumping with quality equipment that was well maintained, were of good physical health at the time of exit, and were very current.....

I can tell you exactly what happened. It was an accident. Everybody has them, you do - I do, Unless there are very SOLID facts to analyse an incident... it's not worth guessing.

1000s of different things could have happened. They hit their arm on exit and lost strength, they sprained some part of their body in freefall, they had a hard opening that cause them to be dissy and have a momentary lapse of good thought, or maybe some guy caught the glimps of a lady in a red dress on his approach... and for just a split second lost himself in fantacy instead of the present. Maybe for just a second someones eyes water up and they can't see anything at all...

Each and every one of us should acknowledge that there is a significant risk to skydiving, and that *WE* have control over how risky we want to be. If you jump a 1:1 wing loading, never attempt high speed landings, stay current, never get in a group larger than a RW 4 way, and always jump at a facility where there are PLENTY of outs to land in... you could possibly use the argued statistic of "skydiving is safer than driving".

HOWEVER... You don't see many people that stay this conservative for long. No matter HOW experienced you are - there are a few seconds durring any high speed aproach that there is almost *NO* room for error.

The truth of the matter is, There will always be a certain percentage of inicidents in this sport that can only be blamed on somebody making a mistake.

I accept the risks that I take in skydiving, and I acknowledge that those risks may even lead to my parents and loved ones being notified of my death. I am a very conservative jumper and will remain so throughout my years - however I expect that when I start seeing jump numbers in the 1,000 range I will be trying higher speed aproaches. The personal enjoyment and satisfaction that I get out of skydiving is undescribable; and I have made the personal choice that the risk is worth it.

Safety is *VERY* important, however sometimes when reading through these forums - I almost get the impression that they are *TO* critical and because of that they loose their educational effect...

----------------------------------

There are a lot of incidents that we have learn from over the past few years... Things that we didn't even know before they happened... Who knew a tandem student could fall out of their harness? Who knew it could happen even if they were not handicap? Now it looks like we might have an incident that displays the risks involved in a rig getting wet and then jumped.

Some things we relearn: Many incidents over the past year may have been prevented by an RSL, especially a skyhook. While there are many reasons to jump without one... when is that last time an RSL caused a fatality? My personal choice is to jump with an RSL; even when I'm flying a camera. Many people disagree with this; I understand the arguments and accept the risks. It is looking at recent incidents that makes me confident in my decisions about these things.

Sometimes it comes down to the physical health of the people existing the aircraft. At what point in an old respected elders life do you take away his personal freedom of deciding to make a skydive in the interest of his own safety?

If i make it to 75+ years old; and I'm still mentally capable of making decisions... and I decide to make a skydive that ends up ending my life because of a previous heart condition.... Guess what - it was my time to go. I lived life to it's fullest.

Sometimes I think that a lot of people here are lying to themselves about how 'safe' this sport is. How many of your wuffo freinds can tell you how many people doing what they do in the past year?

God bless personal freedom.

Matt Christenson

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http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.