Ski slope ground launching....

[stratostar 5]

I hope your not trying to imply I'm bagging on him for asking the question.
Because I'm not!
Way back in 1982 when the first published story came out about someone doing this on the front range Wyoming, some of us in the sport ran right out and also tried it.
There is a hell of a lot more to it then just putting a canopy over ones head and running down the fucking mountain!

In todays world there are way better place's and people to learn this from, some of those same people have crashed and burned and their some of the best at it.
So what I'm saying is, if you want to GL go take a class and ask your questions at the school from those who would have the best up to date info!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[egghead_87us 0]

phreezone...i actually had two places in mind...primary-snow trails in mansfield, secondary- perfect north of bellefountaine if you are familiar with those. Stratostar- i appreciate your concern. It is well meant and brings only good and is not taken for granted and i dont think porterhouse was bagging on you. He was just trying to make sure that I didn't feel like you were. Thanks for that porter, in case I was intimidated- my girlfriend likes the shape of my head btwjavascript: addTag(':)')
javascript: addTag(':)'). Phreezone, you might be more familiar with those ski slopes/foot hills and might see that the only reason i considered it with my experience is how small the slope is. I dont and still dont think it is even possible to get airborne and definitely not anythign like in that video. I just think i could get higher second hand smoking reefer in my friends car or maybe jumping the trick park ramps which i pretty regularly do and yes...have been broke on mulitiple occasions. well...im here on campus at OSU and got class so ill be back later to check on here

[porterhouse 0]

I was, in no way shape or form bagging on phreezone. Nor will I ever bag on anyone here.

I am mearly tipping my hat to you for being smart enough to ask a question BEFORE you try something you're not sure of.

As for being ocassionally ragged on for a question, don't take it personally. It's the result of the high level of experience some dz.com members have (fortunately for you, you can tap into all thier knowledge and experience simply by posting a question).

Very new jumpers generally don't know how dangerous some activities can be. Experienced jumpers are very well aware of the dangers. So when a new jumper asks about something that is incredibly dangerous for thier skill level, they sometimes get a very direct response. Don't ever take it personally. It's just because no one wants to see anyone get hurt. We have to look out of each other.

A lot of injuries could be avoided if more people did what you did, and just asked.

[PhreeZone 15]

Perfect North is in Cinci, not Bellefountaine Mad River is there. You could potentially get up at Snow Trails but its too tight of runs for me at my experinece level to even think about. It also has a severe lack of landing area if you are stupid enough to get lift. Also the lifts locations make the entire thing a crap shoot as to if you fly into them or into the trees. Overall ranking is stupid as hell to try it there. Mad River is WAY too dangerous due to their placement of powerlines, lifts, trees and the lack of landing area at the bottom if you do get up. Its surrounded by buildings with out a single out. Try it here with out lots of prior GL'ing experience and you are probally looking at serious injury if not worse due to its design.

I've never GL'd and its because of a lack of suitable locations. I've looked, and they just do not safely exist in Ohio.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[egghead_87us 0]

cool man, that'll work. thanks everyone for the answers, ill keep it to the plane until i get a better location and more experience.

[porterhouse 0]

Quote

cool man, that'll work. thanks everyone for the answers, ill keep it to the plane until i get a better location and more experience.

Good man

[benbrockwell 0]

Hey kids,

I have two observations, as a skier of 100+ days/season. Though I've never flown a canopy on skis, I'd probably recommend both of these things to someone looking to take this up:

1) The guy in this video has a solid skill set in both skiing and canopy piloting.

He keeps his skis at shoulder-width, and maintains an equal edge-angle with both skis in all turns. He rides long (180-190cm?) fatties, and looks like he has some racing experience. He knows his mountain well, and is very comfortable riding in these snow conditions.

Also, there are rather prime snow conditions on the day he's doing this: It's soft, light, dry, and only a few inches deep, making it easy to set and hold an edge and difficult to sink so deep as to get caught. On every part of the runs he takes in the video, the snow is of this consistency.

His canopy piloting proficiency we can each assess on the basis of our own experience, as we're all jumpers here. But notice that he is, of course, very comfortable with his canopy. He's obviously flown it quite a bit, and is rather familiar with its performance envelope. He knows what it can and can't do, and his control inputs seem almost reflexive.

My second observation is a bit less obvious:

2) He uses each skill set to compensate for 'defects' in the other.

We often see him skiing toward rock outcroppings and into excessively tight areas at high speed, 'defects' in his skiing which no skier wishing to avoid injury would consciously endorse. But to keep himself safe, he compensates for these defects with his canopy piloting skill set: When he's about to hit rock, or enter into too tight an area, he increases his lift and rises off of the mountain surface.

We see too that at times, his canopy stops generating sufficient lift to keep him above the snow. It buffets and even slightly collapses, or has too great a roll angle to keep him in the air. The skydiver flying 10 to 50 feet above the ground would never want this. When it happens to this guy, though, he compensates with his skiing skill set: he's back on his skis, at shoulder width, with equal edge-angle, riding out a turn as if he had never left the ground.

Again, I've never flown a canopy on skis. But to someone that wants to try it I'd recommend, on the basis of my own experience in both disciplines, being pretty comfortable with 1) your skill sets in both skiing and canopy piloting, and 2) your ability to use each skill set to compensate for 'defects' in the other.

Hope this helps.
ben

[billvon 2,400]

>your ability to use each skill set to compensate for 'defects' in the other.

I would say the opposite is true.

Attempting anything like this requires skills in both sports far in excess of what either requires alone. It can certainly be done safely, but takes training and skill - because the transition from air to ground (and back) is a skill that neither skiiers nor skydivers normally have. Claiming that skiing skills can make up for a lack of skydiving skills is like racing motorcycles while wearing roller skates, assuming you skating skills will save you if you have problems while racing.

[benbrockwell 0]

Sorry, 'defects' was probably the wrong word here. I don't mean to say that each skill set should compensate for a lack of skill in the other, but that, in this hybrid discipline, each skill set can compensate for the other such that we can do things here that would be considered defects ('mistakes', maybe?) in skiing or skydiving alone. I put 'defects' in quotes for that reason, though I'm sorry I didn't explain it well enough. They'd really only be defects, properly so called, if we did them in skiing or skydiving alone. We wouldn't ride into rock when just skiing (2:09 in the video, eg), and we wouldn't want our fast-moving, turning canopy dragging along the ground so as to compromise a zero descent-rate landing (2:36) when just skydiving. But the symbiotic compensatory relationship between the two disciplines in this hybrid form allows such 'mistakes' to be made without the usual repercussions associated with them in each sport on its own, because each skill set can compensate for the other. We can ski over rock (within limits), and the canopy can compensate for it; and our canopy can drag like that (within limits) and the skis can compensate for it.

Sorry for being misleading originally. No doubt an excess of skill in each sport is needed for this... the guy is good.

Sorry for the confusion.

ben

[Johnsisland 0]

Crystal Mt. allows the DZO's (and a few others, I think) to ground launch. I suspect the abilities of the people allowed to ground launch were a significant factor in Crystal allowing the activity.

There is a nice movie (on skdyvingmovies.com) about a competition sponsered by Red Bull showing some ground launching, and includes some of the people allowed to ground launch at Crystal.

J

Arch? I can arch just fine with my back to the ground.

[benbrockwell 0]

Hey guys,

A friend of mine told me that my posts might have come across as cocky, and I'm sorry.. I didn't mean to seem arrogant. I've just seen too many friends make too many bad decisions on skis, and wanted to make sure this guy knew what he was getting into.

I'll shut up now.

ben

[billvon 2,400]

>But the symbiotic compensatory relationship between the two disciplines
>in this hybrid form allows such 'mistakes' to be made without the usual
>repercussions associated with them in each sport on its own, because each
>skill set can compensate for the other.

As I said, that makes about as much sense as wearing roller skates while racing motorcycles. (After all, if you were about to crash, you could hop off and skate away to safety!)

Skiing and ground-launching can be done together. The skill required for such a combination of sports requires far more skill than either alone. Heck, from personal experience, ground launching and just _running_ requires far more skill than either flying a canopy or running on level ground.

Hoping that a lack of skill in one sport can be 'compensated' for by some other skills will likely result in dead or seriously injured skydivers.

[benbrockwell 0]

I'm sorry, but you're misinterpreting me.

As I said,

Quote

I don't mean to say that each skill set should compensate for a lack of skill in the other

Though I probably haven't been clear, what I'm trying to say (in #2 above) is this: The person looking to ski with a canopy, like the guy in that video, needs to understand how the skill sets of each of the two disciplines combine to allow them to do different things - skiing over rock, eg - which they would not and can not do in skiing or skydiving alone. I'm agreeing with you: This requires a skill set beyond those of skiing or skydiving alone, as this new sport has us doing different things - skiing over rock, eg - that we do not do when we just ski, or just skydive.

I called these different things - skiing over rock, eg - 'mistakes' because they would be mistakes if we were just doing one sport or the other. But my word was misleading, because in this new sport they are not mistakes. Instead, they are things that we intend to do, and doing them requires, as we both agree, a skill set beyond those required for just skydiving, or just skiing.

I hope this is more clear... Thanks for the patience.

ben

[egghead_87us 0]

as far as "I" go... i have 29 jumps...anything in THAT video as far as terrain, elevation, etc. is my enemy. However...i did stay at a holiday inn express last night....hmmm...here i come Whistler!!

[porterhouse 0]

No one should ever have to apologize for trying to add constructive comments to these discussions.

The whole purpose of these threads is to create an environment conducive to discussions and learning. That is exactly what is being done here.

The individual experiences shared by each person leads to greater knowledge overall. If you say something and someone else disagrees, that's good! Because it forces discussion from two knowledgeable sources, which results in learning by everyone.

We all know that knowledge expansion is one of the primary tools that keeps us alive. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Cheers!!!