Groundbound 0 #1 February 25, 2005 I just saw on TV a helmetcam depiction of a guy who was under canopy and got distracted by the scenery or something and started a turn. The turn became a rapid rotation. Soon the centrifugal force of the skydivers body to the outside of the turn and the compensating force the other way provided by the chute resulted in a horizontal spinning from which he could not recover. So he cut loose and popped the reserve and with fantastic luck was able to land on his feet in a forest at the top of a ridge. Any comments for a nervous first timer on what really happened and emphasis on prevention? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #2 February 25, 2005 Didn't see it, but you can ignore anything the narrator said about it. They make things up to make it more exciting. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #3 February 25, 2005 I am not trying to dismiss your question, but it would take a lot of information. There are a lot of causes for that problem. The solutions are just as lengthy. A first jump course is 6 hours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ncrowe 0 #4 February 25, 2005 I'm guessing the canopy spun up on deployment due to line twists? "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #5 February 25, 2005 >Any comments for a nervous first timer on what really happened >and emphasis on prevention? Small canopies can get 'spun up' where they turn faster and faster without jumper input. If you ignore this it may be unrecoverable. If you have other problems (like line twist) that can make it difficult or impossible to stop the spin, and a cutaway is required. On very very small canopies, the spin can start so fast and be so violent that you can't reach the handles and/or black out from the spin. Needless to say student canopies do not do this. You can't get them to spin up unless there is something very seriously wrong with them (damage, a malfunction.) Only at higher loadings does this become a big issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #6 February 25, 2005 I'm not sure if I saw what you saw, but I am assuming we saw the same thing. If we did, it was a paraglider, not a skydiver. Was it a yellow canopy, with a gray round reserve, and then a cut to him on the ground talking about how he should have been paying attention to flying the thermals, instead of videoing? Just a though. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #7 February 25, 2005 that guy was a paraglider.....a bit different than us... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundbound 0 #8 February 26, 2005 Quotetalking about how he should have been paying attention to flying the thermals, instead of videoing? yes, that was what I saw.... are you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving (I may have the terms confused, sorry) by your mentioning the difference? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #9 February 26, 2005 Quoteare you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving (I may have the terms confused, sorry) by your mentioning the difference? Skydiving canopies and paragliding canopies have their similarities and differences. However, with only 5 paragliding experiences total (and 160ish jumps), I am not really experienced enough to comment on the specifics of either. Malfunctions can happen in both sports, and both rely on backup reserve parachutes when a malfunction cannot be resolved. More experienced paragliders want to hop in here? That's the best I can offer. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IvanPeters 0 #10 February 26, 2005 Quoteare you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving Not necessarily. Just different. A PG canopy is designed to do a different job. It's designed to stay in the air for as long as possible. A skydiving canopy is designed to open safely at terminal velocity and to get you back to the ground in one piece. There will be many similarities in the way they work and perform. There will also be many differences. At this point, you do not want to be worrying about the details of what happened to that paraglider. You will have enough to learn on your FJC about how to use your student canopy. Details of how to prevent a paraglider spin will only confuse things. There is, however, one useful lesson you can take away from it - pay attention to what you are doing at all times. Ivan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tdog 0 #11 February 26, 2005 Quote are you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving (I may have the terms confused, sorry) by your mentioning the difference? Thanks I have flown both a Paraglider and Canopy. I was never a great Paraglider pilot, just someone who was off student status and having fun - but I will say, I think Paragliding is much less forgiving – and thus – more dangerous. A typical novice in skydiving loads their canopy 1 to 1. In paragliding it is half that .5 to 1, and people don’t ever really downsize because swoops are not the goal. With that much fabric over your head, the canopy is not pressurized as much and the lines have less tension since there are orders of magnitude more lines. (Like 3 or 4 times more connection points). It is ROUTINE for a paraglider to fold up in half in turbulence (called an asymmetric) and dive to the side. You are taught how to fix this in ground school before you ever leave the ground. It is also ROUTINE for your paraglider to dive out directly in front or directly behind you – to the point the lines have no tension – if you don’t correct the dive before it happens – you could land in your paraglider. You fly with some toggle tension and simply let up or add more to keep the paraglider overhead. In simulators you close your eyes and the instructor rocks you back and forth to simulate a diving canopy and you learn to keep the glider overhead. My hands typically were very busy on a paraglider whereas on a canopy I bounce thru the turbulence with little need to worry. So – yes, it is my OPINION that beginner to intermediate paragliding is less forgiving in many ways (but once you hit advanced canopies in both sports the playing field levels out) There is just so much more fabric to get blown around and the paraglider is trimmed and designed to have the flattest glide slope with the down side being a wing that is easy to stall, easy to deflate, and really does not want to stay over your head. And, launching a paraglider off a mountain has killed my friends. They have been thrown back down into the hill from 100’, their glider has turned 180 on launch due to a thermal or rotor, or they just biffed it… I have looked at the fatality rates per participant – and I would say, paraglidng is more dangerous on paper too. And – the reserves in paragliding typically have NO steering capability – they are more like a drogue or old school round you would use to drop equipment with. My instructor was infamous for landing his reserve in the only powerline within miles – because, that is where fate took him. (oh - and that reserve ride was because his perfectly good paraglider folded up when he hit a bump in the road. How many skydivers have these types of reserve rides?) Anyway – not to hijack the thread – but that is my experience. I still stand firm - in either sport - canopy control is #1 learning priority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #12 February 27, 2005 QuoteI still stand firm - in either sport - canopy control is #1 learning priority. Very wise words. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
n23x 0 #9 February 26, 2005 Quoteare you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving (I may have the terms confused, sorry) by your mentioning the difference? Skydiving canopies and paragliding canopies have their similarities and differences. However, with only 5 paragliding experiences total (and 160ish jumps), I am not really experienced enough to comment on the specifics of either. Malfunctions can happen in both sports, and both rely on backup reserve parachutes when a malfunction cannot be resolved. More experienced paragliders want to hop in here? That's the best I can offer. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IvanPeters 0 #10 February 26, 2005 Quoteare you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving Not necessarily. Just different. A PG canopy is designed to do a different job. It's designed to stay in the air for as long as possible. A skydiving canopy is designed to open safely at terminal velocity and to get you back to the ground in one piece. There will be many similarities in the way they work and perform. There will also be many differences. At this point, you do not want to be worrying about the details of what happened to that paraglider. You will have enough to learn on your FJC about how to use your student canopy. Details of how to prevent a paraglider spin will only confuse things. There is, however, one useful lesson you can take away from it - pay attention to what you are doing at all times. Ivan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #11 February 26, 2005 Quote are you saying PG is more dangerous than skydiving (I may have the terms confused, sorry) by your mentioning the difference? Thanks I have flown both a Paraglider and Canopy. I was never a great Paraglider pilot, just someone who was off student status and having fun - but I will say, I think Paragliding is much less forgiving – and thus – more dangerous. A typical novice in skydiving loads their canopy 1 to 1. In paragliding it is half that .5 to 1, and people don’t ever really downsize because swoops are not the goal. With that much fabric over your head, the canopy is not pressurized as much and the lines have less tension since there are orders of magnitude more lines. (Like 3 or 4 times more connection points). It is ROUTINE for a paraglider to fold up in half in turbulence (called an asymmetric) and dive to the side. You are taught how to fix this in ground school before you ever leave the ground. It is also ROUTINE for your paraglider to dive out directly in front or directly behind you – to the point the lines have no tension – if you don’t correct the dive before it happens – you could land in your paraglider. You fly with some toggle tension and simply let up or add more to keep the paraglider overhead. In simulators you close your eyes and the instructor rocks you back and forth to simulate a diving canopy and you learn to keep the glider overhead. My hands typically were very busy on a paraglider whereas on a canopy I bounce thru the turbulence with little need to worry. So – yes, it is my OPINION that beginner to intermediate paragliding is less forgiving in many ways (but once you hit advanced canopies in both sports the playing field levels out) There is just so much more fabric to get blown around and the paraglider is trimmed and designed to have the flattest glide slope with the down side being a wing that is easy to stall, easy to deflate, and really does not want to stay over your head. And, launching a paraglider off a mountain has killed my friends. They have been thrown back down into the hill from 100’, their glider has turned 180 on launch due to a thermal or rotor, or they just biffed it… I have looked at the fatality rates per participant – and I would say, paraglidng is more dangerous on paper too. And – the reserves in paragliding typically have NO steering capability – they are more like a drogue or old school round you would use to drop equipment with. My instructor was infamous for landing his reserve in the only powerline within miles – because, that is where fate took him. (oh - and that reserve ride was because his perfectly good paraglider folded up when he hit a bump in the road. How many skydivers have these types of reserve rides?) Anyway – not to hijack the thread – but that is my experience. I still stand firm - in either sport - canopy control is #1 learning priority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #12 February 27, 2005 QuoteI still stand firm - in either sport - canopy control is #1 learning priority. Very wise words. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
