kallend 1,635 #51 March 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteAgain experience matters. If I take you who have never flown a Helicopter and you go fly it...Chances are you are gonna die....I have some flight time...Chances are I am gonna get hurt. A guy that has passed his checkride will most likley be fine. wanna make that bet? i have 0 hours of air time in a helio.. and i can guarantee you i can fly one better than you.. know anyone who wants to risk their helio? Do get video... Bob (helicopter CFII) Can you loop and roll a helo, and fly one inverted? I can (without crashing).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #52 March 12, 2005 QuoteCan you loop and roll a helo, and fly one inverted? I can (without crashing). Ah! But the trick is, can you do it while riding in the chopper? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #53 March 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteCan you loop and roll a helo, and fly one inverted? I can (without crashing). Ah! But the trick is, can you do it while riding in the chopper? Sparky Oh, well, NOW you're adding conditions. I have had a lesson in a "full-size" helo (Bell47) and also the full motion Jet Ranger simulator at Pensacola NAS. Didn't break either of them, but we never went upside down. Here is a pic of one of my R/C helos.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #54 March 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteCan you loop and roll a helo, and fly one inverted? I can (without crashing). Ah! But the trick is, can you do it while riding in the chopper? Sparky Oh, well, NOW you're adding conditions. I have had a lesson in a "full-size" helo (Bell47) and also the full motion Jet Ranger simulator at Pensacola NAS. Didn't break either of them, but we never went upside down. Here is a pic of one of my R/C helos. I trained and solo'd in one of these. See attachment. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #55 March 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteAgain experience matters. If I take you who have never flown a Helicopter and you go fly it...Chances are you are gonna die....I have some flight time...Chances are I am gonna get hurt. A guy that has passed his checkride will most likley be fine. wanna make that bet? i have 0 hours of air time in a helio.. and i can guarantee you i can fly one better than you.. know anyone who wants to risk their helio? Do get video... Bob (helicopter CFII) heya Bob... how's life at kapow.. wish it were better from the things i hear down south... i guess i should have mentioned to Ron, i build simulators for AH64Ds..... nearly 3000 hours at last count.... no, i'm well aware it's not the same as actually flying but given the feedback we get from real life instructors and the fact we to do full system check outs every single software upgrade, i'll easily put my time up against someone with a few hours in an actual aircraft... we fail if we crash too.. we just get to try it again with a less expensive overhead ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #56 March 13, 2005 Quotewe fail if we crash too.. we just get to try it again with a less expensive overhead Large difference between an expensive video game and real life. You don't crash, you make a mistake and hit reset.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #57 March 13, 2005 duh.. yet the goverment seems to think that sending its pilots to our training is HIGHLY benificial.. do you want to bet 10ish hours of live flight against 3000 hours of sim time? i've certainly showed a few real pilots a few tricks or two.. and they have show me several as well... ps.. the only time i've crashed is when testing the autorotation and system damage simulations...it is a complete simulation.. if you discount the educational experience you are a fool... fortunately our government is not so naive...our simulators are used on nearly EVERY military platform in existence, and come highly praised by the real world instructors.. so obviously someone understands that it is far more than an 'expensive video game' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #58 March 13, 2005 QuoteYou obviously learned something from your mistake. You mentioned getting a canopy with a longer recovery arc. Other than teh specifics of your incident is there anything else you would teach someone to help them avoid bouncing like you did or do you see it as a risk that goes with the territory? What would you say to someone on the DZ over a beer if you saw them doing exactly what you were doing around the time you bounced? the primary thing being that you dont HAVE to swoop every single jump.. evaluate the total conditions and abort if they are not in your favor... part of my nature, and part of my day job is to isolate specific techniques and conditions to recreate a single instance to perfection... this is NOT a good approach to skydiving or swooping... my focus on the specific technique i was working on at the time led me to neglect a crucial factor in its performance.... i was trying to get as smooth a turn (for as much dive as possible) and so quite literally spun myself into the ground by not recognizing i had already passed the safe entry point for the turn i had planned... foolishly i went anyway..... fortunately i recognized it, (could have, should have, been sooner and it would have never been an issue) in enough time (and with enough altitude left) to mitigate the results of my error... at the same time.. i still recognize that, given the margins of error for what we are doing, even a small mistake can still be fatal to anyone at any experience level.... there is a reason it is often referred to as the 'bleeding edge', how close you walk to that edge is entirely up to you.… education is key.. but anyone who thinks it will actually PREVENT an accident is fooling themselves.. and should look up the defintion of accident...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #59 March 13, 2005 Quotethe primary thing being that you dont HAVE to swoop every single jump.. evaluate the total conditions and abort if they are not in your favor... I knew a girl that thought like that. She had over 1000 jumps, several hundred on the same canopy, loaded about 1.4:1. She never got hurt, until she died, that is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisgr 0 #60 March 13, 2005 Quote you dont HAVE to swoop every single jump.. evaluate the total conditions and abort if they are not in your favor... Well said. Know when to say no. Quote education is key.. How would you ensure that more jumpers learn this lesson before they break themselves? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #61 March 14, 2005 Two things: I don't like being called a fool. And I did not discount any educational experience. That is something you have been doing during this tread. Your are assuming that I have "10ish hours of live flight". You have no idea how much time I have in fixed wing or rotor wing, now do you. The government in all its wisdom has not seen fit to let you fly one of their "real" birds now has it? And all the pilots that they do let fly have some dual time, now don't they? Do you ever wonder why? You are and will remain a service tec. not a pilot. No, no ego here. And it is just an expensive video game.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #62 March 14, 2005 Quote Your are assuming that I have "10ish hours of live flight". You have no idea how much time I have in fixed wing or rotor wing, now do you. Looks to me it is you that is assuming. If I was to assume I would say he was going to bet Ron's "assumed" 10ish hours against his Sim time. Try not to be so defensive based on assumptions. You could end up looking like a fool. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #63 March 14, 2005 >You could end up looking like a fool. Could everyone please stop implying that everyone else is a fool? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #64 March 14, 2005 QuoteQuote Your are assuming that I have "10ish hours of live flight". You have no idea how much time I have in fixed wing or rotor wing, now do you. Looks to me it is you that is assuming. If I was to assume I would say he was going to bet Ron's "assumed" 10ish hours against his Sim time. Try not to be so defensive based on assumptions. You could end up looking like a fool. It was posted to me, again in case you didn't noticed. I like it better when you follow your own rule and don't respond to what I post.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #65 March 14, 2005 Quotewanna make that bet? i have 0 hours of air time in a helio.. and i can guarantee you i can fly one better than you.. know anyone who wants to risk their helio? Like someone else said...no ego here Quotean ignorant statement, you have absolutely no idea what i 'thought' Well, from your own words: QuoteAfter a lovely 2 way freefly dive, with no real traffic in my designated landing area (secondary field at Eloy) I initiated a left 270 front riser turn at between 300-400 feet (according to eye witnesses) I have learned to rely on sight picture not my altimeter due to its inaccuracies at lower levels but simply did not bail in time, or at all really, when it should have been apparent I was not going to make it… All in all I was one lucky SOB in this instance. I made several stupid errors that could have killed me but got away lightly with a broken femur (no other significant injuries) few months off jumping and a new piece of titanium and its accompanying screws in my right femur So from your own words you flew a perfect canopy into the ground hard enough to break your femur. Quoteyou continue to make stupid assumptions about it because you apply your thoughts and motivations to everyone else My "Stupid assumptions" come from the fact you stated you flew a good canopy into the ground in a mannner that broke your femur....And from your own statement that you flat out blew it. Quotejust because ego was(is) YOUR problem does not mean everyone else has the same issues you still obviously exhibit. Yeah, ego is not a problem for you. Its not a problem for any of the folks that flew a perfect canopy into the ground but think they know better than someone with 3000 more jumps and 100% less broken bones. (And might I add on a higher WL) Quote know i was lucky, i've publically admitted it, but i also know recognized my error in time to dig out completely Really? Quotebut simply did not bail in time, or at all really, when it should have been apparent I was not going to make it… Thats not what you said....Maybe you did PLF (and I have no doubt you have great PLF's from Benning). But you have stated several times you did not do much that day correctly....I'll give you the PLF. Quotebut there really isnt any point in any discussion with you because despite your COMPLETE ignorance of the actual occurrence, you still stick solidly to your blanket assumption that really applies only to yourself and the corner your found yourself in when YOU fucked up Dude...I'm only using your words....Stings like a muther fucker huh? Quoteso stop playing holier than thou.... All I'm doing is pointing out your inexperience and ego. You can't take it so you insult me. And make really childish comments (For example the Helo one) since you can't admit that others have more expereince than you in anything...Oh well....You are right, I never see much point it talking to you since your ego will not let you listen. There WAS entertainment value...But even that is getting old. Again, you were lucky, not good. And I am sure your PLF's are great. Edit:About your sim time....Ever notice that they don't give folks to you to train and then when you are done hand them the keys to a helicopter? Ever notice that inital training is done not in a computer, but in a Helicopter and you only use the neat machine for emergency procedures that would risk lives? Ever notice that those same guys you work with also practice in REAL helicopters? At any rate you MIGHT be better thean me in a real machine...I will concede that you should be better in the sim. (See, I can admit when you should be better than me at something...something you can't do...Who has the ego again?). But my point (One that you missed or ignored) is that EXPERIENCE means alot....And I have a lot more EXPERIENCE than you under canopy."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
