Gato 0 #26 March 29, 2009 No. If you want to twist what I said into an insult to someone else, go ahead. There's a reason I wrote what I did, and she has nothing to do with it.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #27 March 29, 2009 I'm not twisting anything, you said what you said and she is the owner and operator of that beech 99 that was leased to Paul. I don't live there or jump there nor do I have a cat in your fight, I have jumped that 99 else where a number of times at a number of DZs! It's an honest question to some one who seems to know so much about the AC condition and how it was maintained, and you also clearly don't like people talking shit about Tom Dolphin or Chris Hall, yet you have no problem talking shit about another area (former) DZO....... and maybe an AC owner(for the record I don't know Paul, never met him, never been to his dz, but I can read both sides, I have been to MRVS and I know Tom or I have met him) you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #28 March 29, 2009 QuoteIt's an honest question to some one who seems to know so much about the AC condition and how it was maintained, and you also clearly don't like people talking shit about Tom Dolphin or Chris Hall, yet you have no problem talking shit about another area (former) DZO....... and maybe an AC owner. No - it wasn't an honest question. It was a leading question that assigned meaning to my words, and I let it carry me and this thread off-topic. What do you want to discuss? How I've insulted an aircraft owner, or why someone has threatened to sabotage another airplane? Let's sit down sometime and have a beer and talk, because you and I will say things here we would NEVER say in person, and you and I both know it. (For the record, if Tom doesn't care if people talk shit about him, why should I? Flame all you want.) I'm not your enemy - but I think you know more about past events than you're letting on.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #29 March 29, 2009 I have jumped in the KC area off and on since 1996 and have called both MRVS and the K-State Club my home DZ. Let me stick up for Midwest skydivers here as a lot of good folks, and the area in general are getting a bad rap. I don’t have a dog in the current fight since my butt is currently grounded in Afghanistan, so I am probably spending more time on dropzone.com than usual. No idea who is making threats or why, but I can provide some insight on what to some is characterized, I believe unfairly, as an overly political, and unfriendly skydiving environment in the KC area. It is not, but there is bad blood in some circles; some real, and some imagined. “Gato” has it generally correct. There is some history that contributed to the environment. There was/is some residual bad feeling in the area after the Greater Kansas City Skydiving (Independence) accident. A while before the crash, GKCS had their USPA Group Membership pulled after USPA received complaints that they were using non-certified AFF instructors. This caused some finger pointing over who tattled on whom. I happen to know the guy who made the call to USPA, and it was in fact a visiting jumper from Hawaii, not a local. He and I were on TDY to Fort Leavenworth, KS at the time, around spring of 1996, and spent several weekends jumping there since it was close to Leavenworth. A couple of years later in 1998, the crash occurred. I won’t go in to detail. It is covered in the FAA report, but there was, and still is, a general feeling by many in the area that the accident was preventable. In the aftermath of the accident, there was a bit more finger pointing about who tattled on whom in regard to aircraft maintenance procedures; more bad blood. So, this is where the accusation that the KC area skydiving scene is overly political and unfriendly has some of its origin. Despite what may seem apparent, it was my experience that the skydivers in that area are pretty close knit. All of the area DZs are Cessna operations. The jumpers tend to have a home DZ but move freely among the others. The DZOs all seem to get along well. In fact, if one DZ is having a big event, jumpers from the other DZs will come support it. I have jumped with the Skydive Kansas DZO at a boogie at MRVS; I have jumped K-State’s plane at SD Kansas’ Cessna Boogie (which four of the area planes came to support that year); jumpers from Winterset (Des Moines Skydivers) have come down to jump a Porter at Tom Dolphin’s place; the MRVS crowd all traveled to the Redemption Boogie to support the Lincoln Club; folks came from all over the area to the “No Tornado Boogie” at K-State this fall, and everyone shuts down or curtails ops over Labor Day weekend to go to the Couch Freaks Boogie. It’s really skydiving the way it used to be: small Cessna DZs of close friends spending all weekend jumping and begging the pilot to fly one more load. A big plane coming to the area is still worth a special trip, and everyone turns out to support it. When a couple of folks made a proposal to open a turbine DZ in the KC area in 2006 at Harrisonville, this threw the happy equilibrium into disarray. The new DZOs marketed very aggressively on the internet, promising a full time, seven day a week turbine operation from day one. There were accusations in some circles that they tried to poach staff from the other DZs in the area. They also seemed unwilling to listen to other DZOs who understood the hostility of the local community and tried to warn them off of Harrisonville. Rather than work with the local DZs, the newcomers gave the impression (whether intended or not) that they were bent on cornering the market. These DZOs appeared to enjoy considerable outside support in their efforts, if the posts on this website back in 2005/2006 were any indication. Sadly, they could not make a go of it. I say sadly, because I don’t want to see anyone in the skydiving world fail. The sport is too small. They tried relocating to another airport in the area, and operated for a time, but the promise of a full time turbine DZ never materialized for various reasons. Some have come to blame the other area DZs and the “political” skydiving environment in KC. I don’t think that blame is justified. I think the DZOs simply learned the hard way that it is far easier to start a website and advertise, than it is to build a business. So, yes, somewhere along the way, there may be several people out there with their feelings hurt who would have motivation to make threats. Pretty low class, if you ask me. I say get over it, and get back to jumping and drinking beer! Blue Skies! CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #30 March 30, 2009 Happy to report that we had a blast jumping out of the PAC today! No sabotage, no fights, no bad blood. T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutaway68 4 #31 March 30, 2009 Quote Happy to report that we had a blast jumping out of the PAC today! No sabotage, no fights, no bad blood. I would like to add my thanks to everyone who made this event possible from the aircraft owners all the way down to the lowly jumpers like myself. I had a great time jumping with old friends and meeting and jumping with new friends. I hope everyone had as good of a time as I did and also hope to see you in the sky soon. Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!! The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can." Be fun, have safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #32 March 30, 2009 I hope you will let us know what happens when this is investigated. At least I hope this gets investigated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #33 March 30, 2009 Thanks Gato & CDRINF for the historical perspectives." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piratemike 0 #34 March 30, 2009 Quote Happy to report that we had a blast jumping out of the PAC today! No sabotage, no fights, no bad blood. I also happily jumped out of a PAC on Saturday, and I plan on being back for that plane next weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_music11 0 #35 March 31, 2009 Thank you for the info... sad that such adolescent behavior could be coming from one of our own. I hope that whomever made the threat is reading these forums and sees what a neg impact that they have on us, and realizes that such threats don't involve just those at a particular DZ. Saftey is at the core of our sport and needs to remain so. Minimize risk.. maximize the fun.. blue SAFE skies to allIf flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #36 April 1, 2009 QuoteChris, what DZ were you affiliated with when you were in the KC area? Sorry for the delayed response. I was at Horizon Skydiving in Harrisonville, MO first then I went to Greater Kansas City Skydiving Club in Independence, MO when Horizon shut down in 1995.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutaway68 4 #37 April 6, 2009 I am curious if anyone has heard if there is any follow up news. Are they any closer to identifying this person? Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!! The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can." Be fun, have safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
