Freefly after A' license?

[saxboy 0]

Why "everybody" wants to learn to freefly after almost the first solo jump?
I did one jump this weekend with a friend of mine,to film him while he was trying to sit fly on his 25th jump.
The resault was a back-ball position with turns all the time and when it comes the time for break off (5000ft) he get into spin (on belly) for almost 1000ft.
I can't understand it.
Learn first to fly safe and then try some different things..right??
I mean "you" have a lot of things to learn...
What is your opinion?

[davelepka 4]

If you don't drift up or down jumprun, and you can get stable and pull when you want, then do whatever you want, it's your money. If you think RW is lame, then you don't need to perfect your belly flying beyond beign able to get stable and dump.

[skybytch 259]

This is probably going to come off as snarky, but oh well.

If you think that people shouldn't be trying to freefly at 25 jumps, why encourage the behavior by doing video for them?

[aresye 0]

I was one who wanted to freefly right after getting my license. After some unsuccessful jumps, and missing out on a lot of fun, I decided to work up my RW instead. I don't regret the decision at all, as I have a solid RW base, and have now recently started learning the sit, to much higher success than before.

Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

[SEREJumper 1]

Quote

If you think that people shouldn't be trying to freefly at 25 jumps, why encourage the behavior by doing video for them?

+1

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[SSHusky 0]

Freeflying was part of my student progression. I think it was jump number 18 and 19. We jumped with a coach who would teach us the safety stuff and would make sure to give plenty of separation between groups. I was actually sit-flying by jump 22 from exit to track time. Of course you never made it to that level if you weren't stable at pull time and passed all the other levels.
I think you should be allowed to sit-fly as long as you have someone to teach you the safety requirements... if you have your A-liscence there should be nothing stopping you.

[saxboy 0]

I am not disaggre with you guys...
I am not saying that you should not try to sitfly before x jumps...
For sure you can try anything you want on the air,but "you" must have know first the basic things,like get stable quickly after a spin or something else,because if you "loose" the altitude and you are not able to pull fast in a stable position,then you are in trouble.
I was jumped with him to film the jump because he was told me that he is good...:-)
My opinion...
Learn first to track,backfly,control your legs and many more things and then try to freefly..
That's all..
Thanks for your answers..

[linebckr83 3]

Quote

I was one who wanted to freefly right after getting my license. After some unsuccessful jumps, and missing out on a lot of fun, I decided to work up my RW instead. I don't regret the decision at all, as I have a solid RW base, and have now recently started learning the sit, to much higher success than before.

100% agreed.

I went thru the same steps and am finding that sitting is considerably easier now. Also, my dz is full of RW guys with only a couple FF'ers, so a solid RW base is nice to have when you don't want to miss out on the fun.

I think that solid belly skills are a good thing to have (not necessarily required in my opinion) for aspects other than flying. I can now concentrate on what I'm working on because my level of calmess and awareness has increased just because of number of jumps.

Also, of course belly flying is slower, so it allows more time to think about things that are happening. I had horrible altitude awareness worries when I started. Not having those distractions in your head helps stimulate your learning ability IMHO.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[linebckr83 3]

On the other hand, a problem i had with going vertical is to totally erase the "comfortable feeling" of being on my belly, since that's the worst position you can be in up high. I think that's another thing with freeflying early. Not having basic flying concepts down and suddenly in an uncontrollable spin like you said, the natural tendency would be face down immediately. Then again, as some of you have said, many people pull it off just fine.

It seems to be a factor of the type of jumper I think.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[hookitt 0]

I began doing standups, layouts, and spins all under 20 jumps. By jump 20, I could do standups and hold them. Layout flips were loads of fun and helped teach not only to have fun, but how to control my body.

What I was doing is freestyle, not freeflying. if you want to learn to be in control of being out of control, and be comfortable with it, a simple sit position isn't going to do it. Go out and do some flips. Stand up, spin the stand up, do back layouts (not just one, do 4, 5, however many you feel like, all in a row without stopping. Stand up straddle, stand up daffy, stand on 1 foot, spin it ... etc.

Many people believe a sit position is freeflying. It's just another position. What you do with that position can be part of freeflying.

Your buddy didn't know what to do. He wanted to sit so he tried it. Rather than stop and start again, he kept fighting it. What happened at 5000 feet when he stopped? Did he flatten out and try to turn over from a turn? A quick stop on the side will cause rapid turns. He was never in control of the skydive so flipping to belly from out of control didn't help

Nonetheless, stop trying to hold a position for a whole skydive and do something.

RW skills are good and also a good start. If you really want to be a loner at first instead, then do freestyle or hire a coach... or just flail as proven by this thread.

Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[BDashe 0]

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Not having basic flying concepts down and suddenly in an uncontrollable spin like you said, the natural tendency would be face down immediately. Then again, as some of you have said, many people pull it off just fine.

It seems to be a factor of the type of jumper I think.

Thats why you talk to a freeflyer before huckin it and learn that backflying is the first form of freeflying to be learned

I hopped into freeflying around jump 30, and I do wish I had spent more time on my belly, or at least mixed it up more than I did. Fortunately i gained some belly skills back in the tunnel, but Im still only a marginal belly flyer at best.

In my opinion, freeflying definitely helps belly skills in the long run because you learn more about manipulating the air, and how your control surfaces respond to the air- esp backflying. Obviously being a good freeflyer doesnt make you a good belly flyer, but it help the learning curve when flying belly.

As for starting freeflying early, is it a bad idea? Could be if you aren't smart about it. As long as proper coaching is involved and belly flying isn't completely neglected (like what I did for my first 300 jumps) it can be a good thing. It is also imperitive to learn backfly skills first, something a lot of people skip.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[mrbiceps 0]

I started to try and sit and back fly and just muck around on around jump 20. I had no problem about getting back to stable belly if i had to or when it was pull time. I regret nothing.

[BDashe 0]

I'm sure your tracking and 4 + 8 way skills are up to par...

It isn't instability that is the main issue; though not in the case mentioned in the OPs thread. Most people with 20 jumps can get stable on their belly from any position. considering you pull on your belly, it's important to be able to have a great understanding of how to fly in that orientation. It is also iportant understand how freefly jumps differ in unexpected situations than RW jumps. Many freefly rules/proper techniques can't be learned without coaching. It is best to be safe about learning to freefly by utlizing good instruction, as well as to maintain proficiency in the flat orientation.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983