actual skydives vs wind tunnel

[SivaGanesha 2]

Not sure if this comment fits into the skydiving or the wind tunnel forum because it touches on both. In looking at the price of wind tunnel time, it occurs to me that it is cheaper, but not *hugely* cheaper, than an actual skydive. For example my DZ charges $20 for a skydive whereas the local wind tunnel charges $720/hr (which is $12/min) offpeak.

In my case it is no doubt a win to spend some time in the tunnel since I'm still renting gear at the DZ and there are clearly things I need to work on that can be learned at the tunnel.

However it occurs to me that there are limits to the tunnel as a training tool. You can't track or practice exits or do big ways in the tunnel. But on the other hand, turns, stability, arching, adjusting fall rate--those can all be learned and perfected in the tunnel. And, of course, the tunnel is an option even in bad weather that may ground real skydiving.

Am I looking at it the right way? I can certainly see the value of the tunnel in many cases but I had also thought the price differential might be a bit greater.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[DanG 1]

The price differential really kicks in when you are competent (read safe) enough to fly in the tunnel with your friends. At your quoted prices, a four way is now $3 a jump per person!

And yes, you are thinking about it right. The tunnel is a great tool, and a fun activity all by itself, but it can't teach you everything you need to know about skydiving.

- Dan G

[NWFlyer 2]

There are many ways to get better rates than $720/hour, but Dan's point still holds - when you are at the point where you're sharing time with one, two, or three others, the cost / "jump" becomes much better. But even paying "full freight" yourself, the tunnel learning environment is great because you get very immediate feedback (tunnel walls will let you know almost immediately if you're drifting) and can debrief in between blocks and be back in the tunnel a few minutes later improving your technique. Of course, this presumes you bring a coach along with you (and fortunately, the same local jumpers who provide organizing and coaching at Skydance also enjoy tunnel coaching as well).

One of the things I like about it, too, is that I can be more focused on skill-building without the pressure of hurtling towards Earth - if I lose track of time in the tunnel there's a friendly tunnel rat there to remind me to get the hell out, instead of an angry planet ready to kill me.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Not sure if this comment fits into the skydiving or the wind tunnel forum because it touches on both. In looking at the price of wind tunnel time, it occurs to me that it is cheaper, but not *hugely* cheaper, than an actual skydive. For example my DZ charges $20 for a skydive whereas the local wind tunnel charges $720/hr (which is $12/min) offpeak.

It's hugely cheaper.

I log about 45 seconds of free fall for free fly jumps, of which 1500 feet (maybe 7-8 seconds? I don't know how long it takes to slow down) is lost to break off. For a two way with outside video we're spending $60 for 37 seconds versus $7.40 in the wind tunnel.

That's 1/8th the price.

4-way flat fliers with video pay $100 from a plane versus $9 in the tunnel to get 45 seconds of working time.

That's 1/11th the price.

Adding a coach in the plane is slot ($20) + pack job ($5) + time. In the tunnel you're just paying for time.

[LloydDobbler 2]

I agree with all of the above.

I'd also like to add a bit to what Krisanne said about 'immediate feedback' - a HUGE benefit of the tunnel is that you have solid, stationary reference points around you. I've seen people with 500 skydives get in the tunnel and be humbled, simply because they're used to flying in the big sky with people who move around a bit (and thus, they fly a bit sloppy themselves).

Additionally, most tunnels have a nice mirror up on one wall. When you're dialing in the basics, it's an amazing thing to be able to turn and look at your own body position.

Of course, as you rightly pointed out, experience with tracking, canopy work, exits and deployment issues can only be gained in the sky. But dollar for dollar, I can tell you matter-of-factly that tunnel time has played a much greater role than skydives in how well my 4-way team is doing this year.

Signatures are the new black.

[mircan 0]

I went to the tunnel for the first time recently with just under a 700 jumps. I did 5.5 hours mostly freefly training. The air in the tunnel is more dense, the walls are near so you learn to fly tight and precise. In my experience, and I think most people will agree with me, is that if you learn to fly good inside, you will do good in the air. Also great thing would be that you do some (or as much as you can) jumps after the tunnel. For me it was soooo easy to do all those stuff later in the air.
For another example, 4-way team that I do video for did 12-15 points in the tunnel and on the training it was 8-9, competition was just 7. There many things that you simply can not learn in the tunnel.

Tunnel is a GREAT tool, but it`s just a tool.
That`s my 2c.

dudeist skydiver #42

[davelepka 4]

All the tunnel teaches you is freefall skills, which are primarily a waste of time. I mean that in the most literal sense.

The time from exit to opening is just a time killer until you have to perform in such a way as to save your life. Tracking is the only freefall 'skill' that contributes to safety, and that's only when you jump with others.

Use the tunnel all you want. Just be sure that you don't confuse your skill as a freefaller with skill as a skydiver. You will gain nothing in the areas of aircraft operations/safety, spotting, canopy control or landings, all essential skills needed to perform a safe skydive.

Don't get caught up in the idea that freefall is skydiving. It's not, and it's probably the least important part of making a safe skydive. The tunnel is a great place for students who cannot seem to get stable in freefall. It's a great place for an experienced skydiver to hone their skills. It's a great place to go and have fun.

It's not a place to become a skydiver.

[Granimal 0]

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Tracking is the only freefall 'skill' that contributes to safety, and that's only when you jump with others.

There are certainly other freefall skills that contribute to safety that can be learned in a tunnel. Stable deployment, maintaining safe speeds freeflying (not corking out), level control, keeping out of burbles, safe docking, and wave off just to name some.

I certainly agree with your general statement that there are many other important safety skills one learns in freefall. However, I have been hit very hard in freefall by people without good flying skills.

[MikeJD 0]

You could think of the tunnel as saving you time as well as money. You have an appointed slot, you fly regardless of the weather and you don't sit around because manifest is backed up. It's a highly focused and efficient way to work on your skills.

BUT -

Time spent at the dropzone is also valuable, whether you're getting in the air or not. Even just sitting around talking about 'nothing' with your friends (and hey, there are worse ways to spend the day