livenletfly 0 #1 June 14, 2005 reading another post about jumping threw clouds got me thinking. being in the northwest of the us we have alot of cloudy days. my dz is very strict about punching clouds. that being you do it, your done for the day. i didnt always agree with the stictness, but now being more expierenced and a little wiser i couldnt agree more. ive had some scary jumps at other dz's with clouds. its not very fun opening up in a white world not knowing where the dz is or the 22 other canopy's are. it doesnt seem you have more incidents or fatalities in the uk than the us. although you probably land off alot more. so my question is when you open above or in thick cloud layers, what do you do to try to make it back to the dz without being able to see where the heck your going. also have you had close calls or actual canopy collisions. you must have some brass balls to exit without having any visual orrientation of where you are. especialy if your near a body of water. does any of this freak you folks out or is it just the way it goes? p.s im not questioning your methods. im just curious about your thoughts and procedures. your expierience with clouds could help others if the find thenselves in a bad situation. thanks j> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jas8472 0 #2 June 14, 2005 its not entirley legal to cloud bust in the uk but at some DZ's it does happen sometimes, and there are a lot of factors involved when it does, who the CCI is that day, who the jump master is that load, weather conditions earlier that day, wind conditions, what the spot has been like up to that point, the height and thickness of the clould, if you can see the ground during tracking and pull time, etc, etc. If we do open in or above the clould slow sprials until you are out of the bottom is usually thought to be best, then pick your landing site when you can see the ground but make sure you land safely rather than always on the DZ, although I do know one guy who has a chest mount gps for birdman or canopy ride. I personal have never had any close calls but tracking and flying the canopy in clould is not fun and should not be done if avoidable. Luckly my DZ is not near any water but if it was I would not get out if I could not see the ground. If the conditions are good (ie clould above 4k, the spot is good that day and the clould is not too thick) I will still jump, if it is just me I am making the decesion about but if I'm jump master I personally will not put an entire load in the clould. Just in case you missed it at the top of the post it is actually illegal to clould bust in the UK. Blue Skies Jas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #3 June 14, 2005 The BPA ops manual reads: QuoteParachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible. In reality, if this was followed to the letter we would very rarely get to jump, that's the reality of British weather. In my experience the CCI's decision to allow jumping or not has more to do with the level of cloudbase: if it's low, and people are going to be opening and flying around in cloud, then we don't jump. There's another European country (Sweden? Norway? I can't remember) which has no restrictions on cloud cover. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ps5601 0 #4 June 14, 2005 Technically cloud busting is not allowed and doesn't happen in the UK, but in reality sometimes it does. Some DZs do this more than others, and some CCIs will allow it more than others (especially if there are competitions or tandems). Personally I have no problems going through small amounts of cloud in freefall and if you are in a "safe" location in the UK (clear of air traffic, water) then a 100% GPS spot, while not legal doesn't carry all of the risks that a GPS near the coast may. On the other hand I would not want large formations to go through solid cloud (especially if there are lots of swoopers), and wouldn't go if I knew that there was cloud between opening and landing. I don't like tracking off in cloud and dumping in cloud. One other point though, I have heard many times people say that they will take it down if they are in cloud at deployment altitude. Don't do this it's stupid. If everyone is expecting you to deploy at X altitude do so (especially if the cloud is patchy as people may not know what height you are now deploying at), also, what if the cloud base has come down to 1000ft, are you still going to wait to come out of the bottom? Blue skies paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,279 #5 June 14, 2005 QuoteIn reality, if this was followed to the letter we would very rarely get to jump, that's the reality of British weather. In my experience the CCI's decision to allow jumping or not has more to do with the level of cloudbase: if it's low, and people are going to be opening and flying around in cloud, then we don't jump. It seems like the BPA is trying to tighten up on cloudbusting at the moment. Recently we've been getting weather holds with blanket clouds at 5k and having to wait for bluesky, when last year we would have jumped cloudcover down to 3k.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweep 0 #6 June 14, 2005 I believe the CAA has been putting a lot of pressure on the BPA to enforce the cloud-busting regulations recently. One thing I'm curious about, why do you have weather holds with blanket clouds at 5K? Why not jump at 5K? I find that 5K lifts are good fun for canopy time, practicing exits and launches and it's certainly better than sitting on the ground (from my point of view). Even a 3K or a 3500 lob is a good laugh. Sweep---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #7 June 14, 2005 QuoteOne thing I'm curious about, why do you have weather holds with blanket clouds at 5K? Why not jump at 5K? Well I did 7 hop and pops between 3k and 4.5k on Saturday. It was a blast! GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #8 June 15, 2005 Also good training for aircraft emergencies so if it should ever happen you will know what 2-3k looks like and feels like. I find it more challenging at low altitude but just as much fun Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #9 June 15, 2005 I got a pretty good idea that Gus knows exactly what 2-3K looks like.....and feels like .....Feels a bit high.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweep 0 #10 June 15, 2005 Going by his profile I'm surprised he did hop and pops from 3k to 4.5k. Could have fitted in a good long delay and felt comfortable ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinwhelan 0 #11 June 16, 2005 You can get a good 10 seconds from 4000 "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,279 #12 June 16, 2005 QuoteOne thing I'm curious about, why do you have weather holds with blanket clouds at 5K? Why not jump at 5K? I find that 5K lifts are good fun for canopy time, practicing exits and launches and it's certainly better than sitting on the ground (from my point of view). Even a 3K or a 3500 lob is a good laugh Sorry, I meant weather holds for max lifts, with enough jumpers anything from, uhh, 2.2k up is good to go. Hell, last saturday I actually started jumping faster on the weather hold than I had with blue sky. For some reason there were suddenly all these empty spaces on the aircraft. Any one want a 4-way?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
