Empadinha 0 #1 July 4, 2005 Hi all, I did a trike jump (3500ft) last weekend with a borrowed throw-out/stiletto 135. The jump went fine, and I opened at 2500ft aprox. I will get my rig back tomorrow from reserve packing and was wondering if there's any "problem" of doing trike jumps with pull-out systems due to the low altitude/freefall speed. Any advice either? regards, Empadinha.When in Danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #2 July 4, 2005 I jump from 2500 a fair bit with my pullout. What's a trike jump?Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 July 4, 2005 IMO they are LESS issues with a pull-out at low airspeeds (often associated with low altitude exits.)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Empadinha 0 #4 July 4, 2005 thanks for the reply adD, Trike It's a delta wing with a small engine at the rear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Empadinha 0 #5 July 4, 2005 Thanks jp, better safe then sorry here's a pic of a trike adD:When in Danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragonfyr 0 #6 July 4, 2005 A pull out system versus a BOC system behave almost identically regardless of the type of jump. The main difference is you have to have a more aggressive throw when using the pull out to ensure the pilot chute gets into clean air. Once out though, the systems behave the same. If this is the first time you had jumped a pull out, I would hope you were able to get detailed instructions from someone who is experienced in pull outs. If not, please do not jump it again until you do. There are several key things you need to be aware of with a pull out that can be problematic if you are not trained (e.g. having a lost handle, etc.). Just make sure you have someone who knows what they are doing provide instruction anytime you jump something you don't fully understand. Too many accidents have happened this way. I'm glad you had a fun jump! Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #7 July 4, 2005 An aggresive throw is not necessary. Pull it almost to arm extension and let it go. That's it. (FYI, I've used a pull-out for just over 6 years) Things to know: How to pack it correctly and why it's correct. What is incorrect and have it demonstrated. Practice pulling it a time or 2 and go jump it. Pull outs are very easy systems to use. Some designs are better than others but in general they are more secure than a BOC with Hackey handle on the pilot chute. Hope that helps.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #8 July 5, 2005 I would think the opposite. WIth a throw out at very low airspeed you still need enough drag to inflate the PC before your container opens. You might tow the PC a bit but at least the PC would have enough drag to carry the bag to full line stretch. I can picture a sub-terminal with a pull out as POSSIBLY having an open container and the d-bag kind of lazily reaching line stretch if there isn't quite enough drag on the PC. Either way from 3500 there should be plenty of altitude to take a 10 second delay. At that point the speed should be plenty for either system to work just fine. I've only got a couple dozen jumps on pull-out gear and all at terminal so those are just my thoughts. Why would you think pull out would be better at sub-terminal?illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragonfyr 0 #9 July 5, 2005 There is actually no difference once you get the pilot chute out. The pilot chutes for BOC and pull outs are basically the same, it is just a different handle and pin system. After re-reading your post though, I see what you might be getting at is the force required to pull the pin on a BOC throw out. With a pull out, you are guaranteed the container will be open as the pilot chute inflates and pulls away, so you may get a quicker bag extraction. BOCs do open quickly in sub-terminal, but there is the potential for it to tow behind for a little bit before extracting the pin. However, the pin does extract pretty easily in most sub-terminal conditions (excepting balloon or helicopter jumps which may require a little more speed). I'm not sure what speed is required to extract a pin using a BOC throw out, but my guess is that it would extract in most sub-terminals from planes. So in that regard, yes the pull out might have a slight edge, but I'm not sure if it is a significant difference. I agree with Hookitt's assessment that pull outs are more secure, but they do come with their own risks as well. There are some people out there that are very against pull outs, but I have been jumping them for over 7 years now. Personal opinion here, but I think they resolve more potential malfunctions than they create. They practically eliminate misrouted bridals, pilot chute in tows, horseshoes, monkeyfists, early deployment from loose BOC pocket. In return you get the chance for a lost handle (I have had four of these, one resulting in a reserve ride). Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #10 July 5, 2005 Quote,I will get my rig back tomorrow from reserve packing and was wondering if there's any "problem" of doing trike jumps with pull-out systems due to the low altitude/freefall speed. Any advice either? .I have never jumped my pull out lower than 1000 feet. Below that you need specialized equipemnt, IMHO. Enjoy your ultralight jump. I made one from an MX-2 years ago. It was a blast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #11 July 5, 2005 QuoteI would think the opposite. WIth a throw out at very low airspeed you still need enough drag to inflate the PC before your container opens. You might tow the PC a bit but at least the PC would have enough drag to carry the bag to full line stretch. A P/C will inflate with the flick of a wrist when packing on the ground, that's not the problem. On a sub treminal low airspeed jump on a throw out rig with a tight closing loop the P/C may not create enough drag to pull the pin, and if the bridle reaches "stretch without pulling the pin the even more airspeed will be needed to complete the task as the "snatch" force is gone. QuoteI can picture a sub-terminal with a pull out as POSSIBLY having an open container and the d-bag kind of lazily reaching line stretch if there isn't quite enough drag on the PC. How? QuoteEither way from 3500 there should be plenty of altitude to take a 10 second delay. At that point the speed should be plenty for either system to work just fine. Agreed. QuoteI've only got a couple dozen jumps on pull-out gear and all at terminal so those are just my thoughts. Why would you think pull out would be better at sub-terminal? Chances of towing the P/C due to low airspeed is much lower.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #12 July 5, 2005 >I can picture a sub-terminal with a pull out as POSSIBLY having an > open container and the d-bag kind of lazily reaching line stretch if > there isn't quite enough drag on the PC. >How? Pullout with bungee collapsible. I watched several low deployments with such a system; they were scary. Often the D-bag would beat the PC to the end of the lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #13 July 5, 2005 Ok, I'll buy that one. Didn't think much of it as the Bungee P/C has mostly gone the way of the Dodo bird, and for good reason---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Empadinha 0 #14 July 5, 2005 Thanks for all the replys fellas, I really apreciate. Dragonfyr, thanks for you concern m8, but this is not my first jump with a pull-out, (40 aprox), it will be my first hop n' pop with a pull out EricTheRed, watching the video I counted 11 sec free fall Johnmithchell, hookitt, Thanks, sure I will!When in Danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Empadinha 0 #5 July 4, 2005 Thanks jp, better safe then sorry here's a pic of a trike adD:When in Danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfyr 0 #6 July 4, 2005 A pull out system versus a BOC system behave almost identically regardless of the type of jump. The main difference is you have to have a more aggressive throw when using the pull out to ensure the pilot chute gets into clean air. Once out though, the systems behave the same. If this is the first time you had jumped a pull out, I would hope you were able to get detailed instructions from someone who is experienced in pull outs. If not, please do not jump it again until you do. There are several key things you need to be aware of with a pull out that can be problematic if you are not trained (e.g. having a lost handle, etc.). Just make sure you have someone who knows what they are doing provide instruction anytime you jump something you don't fully understand. Too many accidents have happened this way. I'm glad you had a fun jump! Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #7 July 4, 2005 An aggresive throw is not necessary. Pull it almost to arm extension and let it go. That's it. (FYI, I've used a pull-out for just over 6 years) Things to know: How to pack it correctly and why it's correct. What is incorrect and have it demonstrated. Practice pulling it a time or 2 and go jump it. Pull outs are very easy systems to use. Some designs are better than others but in general they are more secure than a BOC with Hackey handle on the pilot chute. Hope that helps.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #8 July 5, 2005 I would think the opposite. WIth a throw out at very low airspeed you still need enough drag to inflate the PC before your container opens. You might tow the PC a bit but at least the PC would have enough drag to carry the bag to full line stretch. I can picture a sub-terminal with a pull out as POSSIBLY having an open container and the d-bag kind of lazily reaching line stretch if there isn't quite enough drag on the PC. Either way from 3500 there should be plenty of altitude to take a 10 second delay. At that point the speed should be plenty for either system to work just fine. I've only got a couple dozen jumps on pull-out gear and all at terminal so those are just my thoughts. Why would you think pull out would be better at sub-terminal?illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfyr 0 #9 July 5, 2005 There is actually no difference once you get the pilot chute out. The pilot chutes for BOC and pull outs are basically the same, it is just a different handle and pin system. After re-reading your post though, I see what you might be getting at is the force required to pull the pin on a BOC throw out. With a pull out, you are guaranteed the container will be open as the pilot chute inflates and pulls away, so you may get a quicker bag extraction. BOCs do open quickly in sub-terminal, but there is the potential for it to tow behind for a little bit before extracting the pin. However, the pin does extract pretty easily in most sub-terminal conditions (excepting balloon or helicopter jumps which may require a little more speed). I'm not sure what speed is required to extract a pin using a BOC throw out, but my guess is that it would extract in most sub-terminals from planes. So in that regard, yes the pull out might have a slight edge, but I'm not sure if it is a significant difference. I agree with Hookitt's assessment that pull outs are more secure, but they do come with their own risks as well. There are some people out there that are very against pull outs, but I have been jumping them for over 7 years now. Personal opinion here, but I think they resolve more potential malfunctions than they create. They practically eliminate misrouted bridals, pilot chute in tows, horseshoes, monkeyfists, early deployment from loose BOC pocket. In return you get the chance for a lost handle (I have had four of these, one resulting in a reserve ride). Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #10 July 5, 2005 Quote,I will get my rig back tomorrow from reserve packing and was wondering if there's any "problem" of doing trike jumps with pull-out systems due to the low altitude/freefall speed. Any advice either? .I have never jumped my pull out lower than 1000 feet. Below that you need specialized equipemnt, IMHO. Enjoy your ultralight jump. I made one from an MX-2 years ago. It was a blast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 July 5, 2005 QuoteI would think the opposite. WIth a throw out at very low airspeed you still need enough drag to inflate the PC before your container opens. You might tow the PC a bit but at least the PC would have enough drag to carry the bag to full line stretch. A P/C will inflate with the flick of a wrist when packing on the ground, that's not the problem. On a sub treminal low airspeed jump on a throw out rig with a tight closing loop the P/C may not create enough drag to pull the pin, and if the bridle reaches "stretch without pulling the pin the even more airspeed will be needed to complete the task as the "snatch" force is gone. QuoteI can picture a sub-terminal with a pull out as POSSIBLY having an open container and the d-bag kind of lazily reaching line stretch if there isn't quite enough drag on the PC. How? QuoteEither way from 3500 there should be plenty of altitude to take a 10 second delay. At that point the speed should be plenty for either system to work just fine. Agreed. QuoteI've only got a couple dozen jumps on pull-out gear and all at terminal so those are just my thoughts. Why would you think pull out would be better at sub-terminal? Chances of towing the P/C due to low airspeed is much lower.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #12 July 5, 2005 >I can picture a sub-terminal with a pull out as POSSIBLY having an > open container and the d-bag kind of lazily reaching line stretch if > there isn't quite enough drag on the PC. >How? Pullout with bungee collapsible. I watched several low deployments with such a system; they were scary. Often the D-bag would beat the PC to the end of the lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #13 July 5, 2005 Ok, I'll buy that one. Didn't think much of it as the Bungee P/C has mostly gone the way of the Dodo bird, and for good reason---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Empadinha 0 #14 July 5, 2005 Thanks for all the replys fellas, I really apreciate. Dragonfyr, thanks for you concern m8, but this is not my first jump with a pull-out, (40 aprox), it will be my first hop n' pop with a pull out EricTheRed, watching the video I counted 11 sec free fall Johnmithchell, hookitt, Thanks, sure I will!When in Danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
