0
Ronaldo

Would you consider...

Recommended Posts

I think that the reality of this question is that, if you don't feel comfortable landing the main you have in your container in any of the areas that you might be forced to do so you are jumping the wrong main.

I might not like landing my velocity in town, but I certainly could do it. The harder thing is picking out unknown obstacles in an area you don't frequently land in and most of them will fuck you over on a main or reserve equally.

I have never jumped the reserve in my current container, I have over a thousand jumps on my current main, at this point I have gotten pretty good at flying it in the close vicinity of all kinds of moving and non-moving obstacles.

Billvon: You mentioned "at night" and my answer stands, don't take a canopy you aren't comfortable with having to land off field with no lights. Same goes for bail outs, if you aren't comfortable enough to land the canopy anywhere that you might have to bail out, then your choice of canopy is flawed.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>don't take a canopy you aren't comfortable with having to land off
>field with no lights.

I guess I choose my canopy based on likely landing conditions, not all possible landing conditions. If we took off (for example) circled for 8 hours, accidentally flew over downtown LA at 3000 feet at night and then had an engine failure and had to bail out, my 109 would be a poor choice indeed. But since that's unlikely, I use it for its other advantages (excellent openings, good glide, ability to get down quickly.)

I do agree, though, that in general you should not jump a canopy you aren't comfortable landing off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

if you are worried about this type of situation research the area you are jumping over with google earth or a similiar satellite program and find your outs before you go up...make a plan for each out situation you can think of for where your airplane flies.



Even better: go visit the site in-person, walk around, and draw pictures in a notebook of where obstacles are, like fences and power lines, that may not be seen on internet aerial photos. If you haven't done that, you're not properly prepared.



Everyone or just those that are 'worried' about their landing situation?
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

In no wind conditions you can fly the 7-cell final approach at glide ratios from 2:1 down past 1:1 all the way to the target and have energy left for a nice flare and stand-up landing.



I disagree.

High WL 7cell F111's have a tendency to enter a dynamic stall when flared too much. The control stroke (at high WL's) is much shorter than modern canopies. This has caused injuries in that past. Dick Klimas from World Team shattered his arm and it was so bad at one point that Skydiving Mag wrote an article discussing the issue.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Reserve-Flight-Char-v3.pdf

Stall Characteristics: A canopy will stall when the toggles or back risers are pulled down to a certain point
called the “stall point.” When a canopy stalls there is a dramatic decrease in lift: the canopy basically stops
“flying” and starts to descend very quickly. The stall point of a particular canopy will depend mainly on the size
and design of the canopy. A smaller canopy will tend to have a higher stall point, meaning you will not need to
pull the toggles down as far to make the canopy stall.
Modern zero-porosity main canopies often have a very low stall point. A large zero-p main might not stall even
when the toggles are held all the way down, and the stall point of a smaller canopy may still be at a very deep
toggle position. A reserve of a similar size will usually have a higher stall point.


Fly an > 1:1 loaded 7cell F111 in the brakes needed to do 1:1 glide in a no wind day to landing and you are NOT going to have "energy left for a nice flare and stand-up landing".

Now, jump a properly sized F111 7cell (0.7ish WL) and I would agree..... But most people who are jumping tiny mains do not have big reserves. Mine is loaded at 1.54, yours is 1.38
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Optimums, not at all.



http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/OptimumReserveFlightCharacteristics_v1.PDF

The Optimum has a fairly long control range for a reserve parachute, longer than the standard PD reserve, with excellent slow flight characteristics. The stall point is very deep for a reserve, so much so that it *may* be possible to fly at full arm extension for a few seconds prior to getting a stall. Of course, the exact stall point of any canopy depends on the canopy size, riser length and arm length. Recovery from an induced stall is quick and clean. Altitude permitting, it is best to check the control range and stall point of the Optimum prior to landing, because the stall point will probably be very different from that of your main. Stalls and other radical maneuvers should obviously be avoided close to the ground....

Any small canopy will have a high descent rate on final, so flaring must be timed well. Regardless of how great the flare potential is with the Optimum, a hard landing will be the likely result from a poorly timed flare.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I’m a little surprised with the results. It is almost unanimous the idea of sticking with the main you already know well than to switch to a lighter loaded reserve you have never jumped.
It’s been a really interesting discussion folks, thank you all for the inputs
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0