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NeoX

BPA Member now Living in Holland - Get a Dutch Licence?

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I have BPA membership, but have been living in Holland for the past year and jumping under my BPA Licence and membership. I'm not sure at this stage how long I will live in Holland, whether two years, five years, or indefinitely. I'm British and may return to the UK one day.

My questions are quite simple. Should I allow my BPA membership to lapse and get a Dutch licence and membership? Or, should I renew my BPA membership and keep jumping under my BPA Licence? Or is it worth having both?

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering how best to track and attain gradings. First, I'm not sure if I can even get gradings on my BPA Licence at Dutch DZs unless I find a BPA instructor. So this is why I'm wondering if I should get a Dutch licence. Second, if I get a Dutch licence and get gradings on it, can these be later applied to my BPA Licence if I show a BPA instructor my Dutch licence? And conversely, can I get my existing gradings (and any future gradings) on my BPA Licence applied to my Dutch licence if I get one?

Thanks in advance for any advice, whether general, or specific to my situation.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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As always, it depends.

Does the Dutch membership offer third party insurance? Is it greater than the £100k that BPA membership offers you? Do you want/need £100k of third party insurance? Do you value the BPA magazine (you also have the option of just taking out a magazine subscription)? I think I know the answer to this but do you have ratings (not gradings)? If you do (which I don't think you do), you can not renew them if your membership lapses; you will have to requalify. Do you like to continue supporting British Skydiving through your subscription?

You are correct in that a British (Advanced) Instructor overseas can award gradings, if you cross paths with one. I'm afraid I can't answer as to whether the KNVvL have equivalance for gradings. It is down to a CI in the UK as to whether they'll accept Dutch gradings and issue you with the equivalent British ones.

Since you are British, if you moved back to the UK now and were resident you'd be expected to have BPA membership.
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Dutch KNVvL membership (specifically membership of the Parachute part) does provide secondary third-party insurance (secondary as in: first ask your own insurance, if they don't cover it then the RNAA insurance will cover it). The coverage is up to 1.5M€, with €100 to be paid by yourself per case.

Relevant information in Dutch:
http://parachute.nl/waverzekering.html

And yes, the KNVvL has roughly the same licence structure. We also use A-B-C-D licences, and while the requirments to get them are often (slightly) different, the general level is the same. But, we don't have a sticker system for the different disciplines. As soon as a coach thinks you're safe enough in the discipline, you can go have fun with others.

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The good news is that it probably will not matter much in practice for everyday jumping, because instructors will most likely require you to abide the Dutch regulations, and they don't even know the British ones.

But for getting ratings, it gets complicated. I don't know if BPA lets non-BPA instructors sign off tasks.

Also the requirements for getting some ratings may be different. I don't know the BPA requirement for getting your tandem rating, but I think USPA requires 500 jumps, where we (KNVvL) require 1000 jumps (+D licence, etc.).
This makes transferring a foreign licence difficult sometimes.

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Thanks, all, for the advice. Some good points raised.

I guess the third-party insurance is irrelevant since both BPA and KNVvL provide it. But the lack of gradings in Holland is an issue for me. I prefer a system (such as the BPA sticker system) where you can go to any DZ and they can see what you're capable of formally rather than having to take your word for it, or going through your logbook.

Also, if let my membership lapse and resumed it later, I would certainly have to demonstrate an ability (such as a coached jump) in the UK to get a grading if I have no formal Dutch sign-off to back it up. By keeping my BPA membership, at least I can get gradings awarded by BPA Advanced Instructors while in Holland as and when I bump into them (they can verify with the Dutch coaches as required I suppose).

This brings me onto another question. If, let's say, I allow my BPA membership to lapse, I still have my BPA Licence - can I get awarded gradings in my licence abroad while not a BPA member, or is this simply not allowed?

Finally, for the sake of £100, I take cpoxon's point about the BPA magazine and supporting British skydiving. Both of these are pros for me.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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shorehambeach

Cpoxon

Does our BPA insurance liability cover non BPA/BP affiliated DZs or is this one an affiliate? Thanks :)



Excluding the USA yes, £100k third party cover at non-affiliated DZs (£5M for affiliated ones).
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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NeoX


I guess the third-party insurance is irrelevant since both BPA and KNVvL provide it.



Well, not quite; £100k cover vs. €1.5m.

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Also, if let my membership lapse and resumed it later, I would certainly have to demonstrate an ability (such as a coached jump) in the UK to get a grading if I have no formal Dutch sign-off to back it up.



It depends. It could be awarded with enough video evidence demonstrating the required skills.

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This brings me onto another question. If, let's say, I allow my BPA membership to lapse, I still have my BPA Licence - can I get awarded gradings in my licence abroad while not a BPA member, or is this simply not allowed?



Currently, there is no link to BPA HQ when a grading is awarded. Technically, they shouldn't be awarded (them stickers cost money you know!) but practically I doubt anyone would refuse. This is changing though with the development of the new membership database where gradings will be recorded, so you'll need to be a current member (for the 2018-2019 membership year onwards).

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Finally, for the sake of £100, I take cpoxon's point about the BPA magazine and supporting British skydiving. Both of these are pros for me.



That is good to hear :-) Also, I forgot to mention that the BPA's insurance policy includes £15K death and critical injury cover which is probably not very significant to a man of your means but every little helps.
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Thijs

I'd be surprised if the KNVvL wouldn't want to translate the written tests for you, or make it into an oral exam or something. Give them a call or send them an email if you want to be sure, they are usually quite helpful.



I don't think I've ever met a Dutch person who couldn't speak English! Google tells me 90% of Dutch people speak English as a second language :o

Edit: Oops sorry eVH, I appear to have edited your post rather than post my own! They suggested contacting the KNVvL as they are very helpful and suggested the exam could be translated.

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NeoX


Also, if let my membership lapse and resumed it later, I would certainly have to demonstrate an ability (such as a coached jump) in the UK to get a grading if I have no formal Dutch sign-off to back it up.



Maybe. Depends on the instructor and how 'sensible' they're willing to be. A good friend of mine qualified in the UK and got only a few jumps under his belt on an A-licence before leaving for Oz for a few years. Did a few hundred jumps out there before coming home.

Bad weather day and half an hour with a friendly instructor going through his log book and he jumped straight to a C-licence and several stickers.

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Thanks again for the advice. I think the fact that gradings are to be recorded from next year is even more reason to keep my BPA membership given my other reasons.

And I take cpoxon and mr2mk1g's points that I can show video evidence and my logbook when I go to the UK to get gradings and even licence upgrades effectively achieved abroad. This doesn't impact on whether I should allow my membership to lapse or not, but it's certainly good to know it will be easier to get the gradings when I visit the UK.

One thing about the £15k death and critical injury cover - this doesn't apply for me as it doesn't cover outside the UK "except at the BPA Affiliated Parachute Training Organisations on British bases in Germany and Cyprus" as per here.
He's doing his Superman thing.

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NeoX

One thing about the £15k death and critical injury cover - this doesn't apply for me as it doesn't cover outside the UK "except at the BPA Affiliated Parachute Training Organisations on British bases in Germany and Cyprus" as per here.



NOW you start to do your own research! :P
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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But the OP is NON UK resident jumping at a NON BPA affiliated DZ

see clause 3:

Third party insurance

BPA insurance cover for non-UK residents and/or citizens performing activities outside the UK applies only at BPA Affiliated Parachute Training Organisations or as part of a BPA-Registered Display Team.

:|

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cpoxon

***One thing about the £15k death and critical injury cover - this doesn't apply for me as it doesn't cover outside the UK "except at the BPA Affiliated Parachute Training Organisations on British bases in Germany and Cyprus" as per here.



NOW you start to do your own research! :P

I'd already read that link before posting this topic - hence why I only mentioned gradings, and not insurance in my original post. I just referred to it to correct you on your comment that I'm covered for £15k death and critical injury (given I'm in Holland). ;)
He's doing his Superman thing.

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