BAN GARLIC

[brenthutch 427]

20 minutes ago, kallend said:

If "it works" explain carefully why every other western nation has a far lower murder rate than we do, longer life expectancy, and lower infant and maternal mortality rates.

Remove the gangbangers and those trends reverse, even with our millions of guns.  To put it another way “guns don’t kill people, people do”

Lefties struggle with this in much the same way they are unable to come to grips with the failure of AGW theory

[kallend 1,882]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Remove the gangbangers and those trends reverse, even with our millions of guns.  To put it another way “guns don’t kill people, people do”

Lefties struggle with this in much the same way they are unable to come to grips with the failure of AGW theory

So you can't, in fact, come up with an explanation.

No surprise there, since the proper use of data doesn't seem to be your strong point.

[brenthutch 427]

Here’s your data

According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.

[billvon 2,792]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Remove the gangbangers and those trends reverse, even with our millions of guns.  To put it another way “guns don’t kill people, people do

This guy was not a gangbanger.  Just a white supremacist with an easy, hassle-free way to get a gun.

[Coreece 190]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

As always, totally ignoring the 900lb gorilla in the room while blaming everything else.

I'm not blaming anything, just showing a solution that you're totally ignoring, as always.

 

2 hours ago, kallend said:

If "it works" explain carefully why every other western nation has a far lower murder rate than we do,

Because people like you ignore proven solutions even when they smack you right across the face.

"Giffords has also created its own document laying out seven states it believes could benefit from fully implementing Ceasefire’s violence reduction strategies, including California, Colorado, Illinois, Maryland, Missouri, North Carolina and Wisconsin."

"The state has responded to the crisis in its cities by funding Cure Violence Illinois and, as of 2018, the Community Based Violence Intervention and Prevention (CBVIP) program. The state has been the principal source of funding for Cure Violence Illinois since 2004, but due to a series of budgetary disputes, the program has suffered from a number of funding lapses, site closures, and service disruptions."

 

So stop whinging and write a check.

[billvon 2,792]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Lefties struggle with this in much the same way they are unable to come to grips with the failure of AGW theory

Funny, in another thread you are admitting the climate is changing per IPCC predictions, but are saying it won't be that bad because it was warmer before, and it won't impact people that much.

Sounds like _someone_ is struggling here . . .

[brenthutch 427]

27 minutes ago, billvon said:

Funny, in another thread you are admitting the climate is changing per IPCC predictions, but are saying it won't be that bad because it was warmer before, and it won't impact people that much.

Sounds like _someone_ is struggling here . . .

Where did I say that?  BTW I think the IPCC predicted a bit more warming than 15 HUNDREDTHS of a degree in the last two decades.

Struggling indeed 

Edited August 2, 2019 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,792]

15 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Where did I say that?  BTW I think the IPCC predicted a bit more warming than 15 HUNDREDTHS of a degree in the last two decades.

We can address that remarkably inaccurate claim in the other thread if you like.

[kallend 1,882]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Here’s your data

According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.

No, that is only a fraction (the US portion) of the comparison with other nations.

Do you really believe they have no gangbangers in other countries?  Is that part of the American Exceptionalism you adore?

[brenthutch 427]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

No, that is only a fraction (the US portion) of the comparison with other nations.

What does that even mean?  Please rephrase 

[kallend 1,882]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

What does that even mean?  Please rephrase 

Reading comprehension is important.  Try again.

"If "it works" explain carefully why every other western nation has a far lower murder rate than we do, longer life expectancy, and lower infant and maternal mortality rates."

[brenthutch 427]

Yes, and when our uniquely high gang-related gun violence is accounted for, our murder rate drops precipitously.

While I agree reading comprehension is important, so is sentence structure.  That can be forgiven though, as English is obviously not your native tongue.

Get some sleep

Edited August 3, 2019 by brenthutch

[kallend 1,882]

14 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Yes, and when our uniquely high gang-related gun violence is accounted for, our murder rate drops precipitously.

While I agree reading comprehension is important, so is sentence structure.  That can be forgiven though, as English is obviously not your native tongue.

Get some sleep

Thank you for proving my point.

[billvon 2,792]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Yes, and when our uniquely high gang-related gun violence is accounted for, our murder rate drops precipitously

Yep.  And when stupid skydivers are accounted for, the fatality rate drops precipitously.

Therefore, mandating training for skydivers is ridiculous.  Right?  After all, that's not the problem.  Just get rid of the stupid skydivers, and you won't need training (or reserves, or AAD's.)  And we certainly don't need any NEW training or regulation. Because any problem really only has one cause.

[Coreece 190]

22 hours ago, billvon said:

On 8/2/2019 at 9:07 AM, brenthutch said:

Remove the gangbangers and those trends reverse, even with our millions of guns.  To put it another way “guns don’t kill people, people do

This guy was not a gangbanger.

If you want to talk about this guy and mass shootings, fine, but Kallend started talking about our ridiculously high gun homicide rate compared to other developed countries.  In order to address that, you have to acknowledge what's driving that high rate - and as we've already determined, it's not mass shootings but "everyday shootings in segregated, economically struggling neighborhoods."

Even if you can eliminate all assault rifles and stop all mass shootings, our firearm homicides will still be holding steady at a rate of around 4, just as it is now.

Every person in this forum that has argued for strict gun laws aimed at reducing the number of firearms said that it would take generations before we'd see any significant results.  OTOH, if every major metropolitan area funded programs with similar results like those in Oakland, we could quite possibly cut the rate by 50% within just 6 years.

Also, If Oakland is representative of other major cities, then only 0.16% of the population is actually at risk of using a gun to kill someone, which IMO is a rather manageable number.  You would think that if people actually cared as much as they pretend to in this forum, they'd express at least a bit outrage at why such successful, evidenced based programs are either non-existent or underfunded, especially in places like Chicago where such programs are actually seeing cutbacks.  Unbelievable.

I should also say that the solution isn't necessarily to "remove gangbangers."  Oakland realized that they can't arrest their way out of this problem because it just exacerbates the ongoing viscous cycle of violent crime that has plagued similar cities across 3-4 generations.

[Coreece 190]

16 hours ago, kallend said:

If "it works" explain carefully why every other western nation has a far lower murder rate than we do

You have a realistic, evidenced-based solution right in front of your face that you continue to ignore, and you're still asking Why?  That's like ignoring a 4-course meal and wondering why you're still hungry.

What would really be awesome is if YOU, for once, could kindly explain WHY,  and then present a realistic solution to that problem that would in turn cut the gun homicide rate by 50% within 6 years as demonstrated earlier in this thread.

[kallend 1,882]

15 minutes ago, Coreece said:

You have a realistic, evidenced-based solution right in front of your face that you continue to ignore, and you're still asking Why?  That's like ignoring a 4-course meal and wondering why you're still hungry.

What would really be awesome is if YOU, for once, could kindly explain WHY,  and then present a realistic solution to that problem that would in turn cut the gun homicide rate by 50% within 6 years as demonstrated earlier in this thread.

You are dreaming if you think that.  And you continue to ignore the gorilla in the room.  

[billvon 2,792]

27 minutes ago, Coreece said:

If you want to talk about this guy and mass shootings, fine, but Kallend started talking about our ridiculously high gun homicide rate compared to other developed countries.  In order to address that, you have to acknowledge what's driving that high rate - and as we've already determined, it's not mass shootings but "everyday shootings in segregated, economically struggling neighborhoods."

Agreed.  And I agree that gangs are one of the things driving the high gun homicide rate.  So is availability of guns.   If your approach is a program like Ceasefire I would very much support that.

[Coreece 190]

5 minutes ago, kallend said:

22 minutes ago, Coreece said:

You have a realistic, evidenced-based solution right in front of your face that you continue to ignore, and you're still asking Why?  That's like ignoring a 4-course meal and wondering why you're still hungry.

What would really be awesome is if YOU, for once, could kindly explain WHY,  and then present a realistic solution to that problem that would in turn cut the gun homicide rate by 50% within 6 years as demonstrated earlier in this thread.

You are dreaming if you think that.

That's fine, ignore the evidence if you want -  but it doesn't change the fact that it's much more realistic than anything you've proposed.

 

6 minutes ago, kallend said:

And you continue to ignore the gorilla in the room.  

All this talk about banning garlic and gorillas in the room.  Are you capable of articulating your thoughts and having a conversation like a normal person instead of playing these stupid word games?  If you have something meaningful to say, the please, for the love of fuck, spit it out.

[kallend 1,882]

And another:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/el-paso-active-shooter-walmart-mall

Yet people continue to ignore the gorilla in the room and blame anything else.

[kallend 1,882]

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

 In order to address that, you have to acknowledge what's driving that high rate - and as we've already determined, it's not mass shootings but "everyday shootings in segregated, economically struggling neighborhoods."

 

That would make sense if no other nations had "segregated, economically struggling neighborhoods".  Which is, of course, false.  What other developed nations have are sensible gun laws, and homicide rates that are a fraction of ours.

 

[JoeWeber 2,635]

4 hours ago, Coreece said:

 

Even if you can eliminate all assault rifles and stop all mass shootings

While we're trying to adopt programs that reduce all gun homicides, can we not start by banning assault rifles and high capacity magazines? I don't know if the El Paso shooter used an AR-15 style weapon but in the video I just listened to I heard at least 11 shots fired in quick succession. Except for indiscriminately killing humans what purpose do assault weapons and high capacity magazines serve? I have several guns and oppose a general ban but some weapons just make no sense to me.

[jakee 1,408]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:52 PM, brenthutch said:

Here’s your data

According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.

Where is the data? Nothing in that linked report breaks down total gun murders into any subclassification whatsoever. As far as I can tell some random person on the internet just lied to you and assumed you would never bother checking the report (Did you look at it, by the way?).

 

Now here is some data from a government agency who actually have looked into gang violence, and they found that there were an average of about 1900 gang related murders total in both 2010 and 2011. That means there was an absolute minimum of 9100 non gang related gun murders per year at that time. Over 4 times as many as you thought, with the gang problem being less than a quarter the size.

 

So Brenthutch, would you like to revisit any of the opinions you have just expressed on the nature of and solutions to America's unique murder problems?

[jakee 1,408]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:07 PM, brenthutch said:

Lefties struggle with this in much the same way they are unable to come to grips with the failure of AGW theory

Perhaps now you know your argument is based on a fictional premise you'll understand why lefties struggle with it.

[brenthutch 427]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

Perhaps now you know your argument is based on a fictional premise you'll understand why lefties struggle with it.

What lefties struggle with is the solution that Coreese has so clearly illustrated.  It is the efficacy of a program that doesn’t involve a big government solution is what lefties are unable to wrap their brains around.