ISIS Militant Who Suicide Bombed Iraqi Forces Was A Released Gitmo Detainee

[ryoder 1,412]

Phil1111

Its OK I will not make age an issue of this debate. I am not going to exploit, for discussion purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,475]

>I know you want to believe this was some poor lost lamb. He wasn't. He was a
>bad guy who was mistreated.

Yep. And do you think mistreating bad guys makes them more or less likely to take action against whoever mistreated them?

There are millions of bad guys in the world. We should leave them be, unless they commit crimes.

[sonnyblu 0]

jakee

So you can see that being falsely locked up would make people want to do something - but the way they were treated during incarceration wouldn't have any impact on what they wanted to do or how strongly they wanted to do it?

I think their response would be more of an indication as to the type of person they already were prior to their incarceration.

jakee

***An unstable extremist however might still blow things up regardless of how he was treated. Besides, this wasn't even an attack against the U.S, right?

And being locked up, tortured, beaten and generally mistreated with the goal of causing extreme psychological stress, for years, by a western government, while also in the company of real extremists who do preach about the evil of the west and the importance of taking action against it.... could feasibly cause someone to become an unstable extremist.

Don't you think?

In general I'd say that's plausible, but in this case I think he was already a "real extremist." His treatment may have certainly contributed to his instability, but that's not the whole story.

And if this was about revenge or taking hostile action against the US, why didn't he attack the US, or at least the UK that was complicit in his treatment?

Instead, he gets married, builds a family of 7 and then goes off to fight with his brethren just like he always wanted to - and in their eyes, he does it in the most honorable way - hence the smile.

This wasn't a vindictive act. I can't even say that this was an act of terrorism since his intention was to attack Iraqi troops in an ongoing war.

[sonnyblu 0]

nigel99

Also consider that while mistreating an innocent person he is likely surrounded by some 'genuine' terrorists. It's pretty easy to see how he could have been driven to this end point.

It seems Al-Harith was surrounded by plenty of bad company even prior to his detention at Gitmo.

This guy was either an extremist or one of the unluckiest guys on the planet, consistently making poor decisions and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


- According to leaked Gitmo documents, he accompanied Abu bakr, a well known Al Qaeda operative to Sudan in 1992. We don't know where they got that info, nor the reason for the trip.

- However in 1992 he converted to Islam, changed his name and moved from the U.K to study Arabic at the University of Khartoum in Sudan - about the same time Bin Laden started setting up his headquarters in Khartoum along with a sting of businesses to cover for the procurement of weapons, travel and training of Al Qaeda operatives.

- About 4 years later Clinton pressured the Sudanese government to expel Bin Laden from the region, which they did. This just happens to be around the same time Al-Harith decides to leave as well. His family just said he seemed happy enough to return home. I couldn't find info on whether or not he graduated, just that he attended the university.

- He goes back to the UK, gets married and starts an internet business with his wife. Apparently he was devastated when the marriage broke down. This had to happen sometime between 1996 and 2000 as he started a new relationship with Samantha Cook in 2000 that quickly ended in July of that year. He goes back to Manchester to resume his internet business.

- In September of 2001 after 911, he just so happens to go on a trip to Quetta, Pakistan for a "religious retreat" on a "religious holiday" at the same time droves of jihadis are flocking to the area to fight the good fight with Al Qaeda/Taliban. Wait, or maybe it was just a backpacking trip in Iran like he did 25 years ago, but this time, instead of backpacking he'll just hitch a ride from some lorry driver across Pakistan.

- He said he was fleeing Pakistan when the US started to invade Afghanistan, but he was arrested by afghans on October 3rd - the US didn't invade until the 7th.

- He was supposedly held at Sarposa for about 3 months with other prisoners where he was interrogated and tortured by the Taliban until the northern Alliance took control of the prison.

- After being liberated he was offered free transport to Pakistan, but refused stating that it would be easier to contact the British Embassy in Kabul. (not sure if that is of any significance.)

- According to British Embassy he appeared to be the "leader" of the 5 prisoners. (The Sarposa 5) He was cocky and evasive stating that he had provided all that he was going to provide the British Embassy personnel.

- He was then detained at Gitmo.


There are some conflicting sources. Some say that he converted in 1994. His family says that he also taught English at Khartoum, but there doesn't appear to be a record of him as a faculty member there.

It seems hard to get a straight answer. Officials at Gitmo also had difficulty developing a timeline. Al-Harith mentioned attending another school in Sudan, but such school didn't exist. He appears to have lied about his travels to Saudi Arabia. In a polygraph, he was found to be deceptive about his connections with extremist groups and going to Afghanistan for Jihad.

It's clear officials felt he was lying, but I don't think they knew what to make of his story. Everyone was desperate for answers back then.

I don't agree with his treatment, and we may never know his intentions. Either way, it's a sad story as war always is, and I feel for his family. You have to wonder what will become of his children.