gunpaq 1 #51 January 20, 2014 QuoteBecause, for some, it really is. In part, it's because many poorer people living in inner-urban areas who don't drive and rely on public transportation are part of an economic sub-group who often don't have any need for a government-issued photo ID. Oftentimes, by the time they're adults, the raised-stamp birth certificate that had been given to their mother when they were born has long since been lost; and frequently they don't have, for example, utility bills in their own names. So first (to get a govt photo ID) they have to jump through hoops to get the "acceptable" documents to support their identification and place of residence. Next, they have to take the time to take public transportation well out of their neighborhood down to (usually) a DMV or similar office. So even if the govt photo IDs are offered for free, the hassles to get one are sufficient to make a lot of folks in this sub-group to say the hell with it and not bother. The end result is their effective disenfranchisement. And, not coincidentally, most of this sub-group historically tends to trend Democratic. What about rural folks, people living in the country miles from public services? Also, if a person's birth certificate has been long lost and they have no proof or evidence to provide for ID and endure great hardships via public transportation then how do these folks survive. How do they earn income or receive financial and medical assistance? Just wondering.www.geronimoskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #52 January 20, 2014 gunpaq What about rural folks, people living in the country miles from public services? Also, if a person's birth certificate has been long lost and they have no proof or evidence to provide for ID and endure great hardships via public transportation then how do these folks survive. How do they earn income or receive financial and medical assistance? Just wondering. I work as a social worker with people with intellectual disabilities and one of my tasks is sometimes to help people acquire ID. Sometimes these people don't have birth certificates. Sometimes they have had an ID but it is expired. Anyway, I would guess I end up sending off for birth certificates a couple of times a year. All the things you suggest are more difficult for people without an ID than one with. The people I work with are often folks who have been in the social services system for years. So at some point they either had ID or it was not needed (when I started my current job, 10 years ago, Social Security agents and DSS agents would accept my word of who somebody was, but no more). So they are likely still receiving benefits such as Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, and Social Security because most of those programs only require establishing identity for initial eligibility. The last two birth certificates I sent off for were for people who had ID, but let them expire and couldn't renew without the birth certificate. The work-around in my state is the the Vital Records will let me as a social worker apply for a birth certificate with a request on agency letterhead and a copy of my ID. So that works but how somebody without a social worker manages that I am not sure. I did have one client (I no longer work with her) who was born out of state and due to her disability was not able to give any information about her birth parents and we were not even sure what county she was born in (we knew the state). I never did figure out how to get her a birth certificate or a state issued ID. I am unaware of any situation in which one of my clients wanted to register to vote but was unable to do so."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #53 January 20, 2014 Andy9o8QuoteI just can't understand why anyone acts like getting an ID is so damned difficult. Because, for some, it really is. In part, it's because many poorer people living in inner-urban areas who don't drive and rely on public transportation are part of an economic sub-group who often don't have any need for a government-issued photo ID. Oftentimes, by the time they're adults, the raised-stamp birth certificate that had been given to their mother when they were born has long since been lost; and frequently they don't have, for example, utility bills in their own names. So first (to get a govt photo ID) they have to jump through hoops to get the "acceptable" documents to support their identification and place of residence. Next, they have to take the time to take public transportation well out of their neighborhood down to (usually) a DMV or similar office. So even if the govt photo IDs are offered for free, the hassles to get one are sufficient to make a lot of folks in this sub-group to say the hell with it and not bother. The end result is their effective disenfranchisement. And, not coincidentally, most of this sub-group historically tends to trend Democratic. Cry me a river. Going to the DMV or other govt office is a pain in the rear for everyone. To me, saying it's not worth it to get an ID to vote is no different than saying it's not worth it to vote. Choosing not to register, not to get an absentee ballot, not to get an ID (if required), or any other choice is NOT the same as disenfranchisement. I didn't vote in the last election because I chose to travel on short notice just before election day and hadn't gotten an absentee in advance. I wasn't disenfranchised; I chose not to participate. Big difference.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #54 January 20, 2014 Kennedy***QuoteI just can't understand why anyone acts like getting an ID is so damned difficult. Because, for some, it really is. In part, it's because many poorer people living in inner-urban areas who don't drive and rely on public transportation are part of an economic sub-group who often don't have any need for a government-issued photo ID. Oftentimes, by the time they're adults, the raised-stamp birth certificate that had been given to their mother when they were born has long since been lost; and frequently they don't have, for example, utility bills in their own names. So first (to get a govt photo ID) they have to jump through hoops to get the "acceptable" documents to support their identification and place of residence. Next, they have to take the time to take public transportation well out of their neighborhood down to (usually) a DMV or similar office. So even if the govt photo IDs are offered for free, the hassles to get one are sufficient to make a lot of folks in this sub-group to say the hell with it and not bother. The end result is their effective disenfranchisement. And, not coincidentally, most of this sub-group historically tends to trend Democratic. Cry me a river. Going to the DMV or other govt office is a pain in the rear for everyone. To me, saying it's not worth it to get an ID to vote is no different than saying it's not worth it to vote. Choosing not to register, not to get an absentee ballot, not to get an ID (if required), or any other choice is NOT the same as disenfranchisement. I didn't vote in the last election because I chose to travel on short notice just before election day and hadn't gotten an absentee in advance. I wasn't disenfranchised; I chose not to participate. Big difference. Having your registration morph into a non-registration, or having the process of registering so user-unfriendly that it acts as a practical deterrent, most definitely IS disenfranchisement. In large part, that's the essence of the federal court's ruling. As I said above, since you don't agree, by all means seek leave to file a friend-of-the-court brief with the appellate court. "Cry me a river" didn't work with the trial court judge, maybe it will work with the appellate court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #55 January 21, 2014 > Going to the DMV or other govt office is a pain in the rear for everyone. So why not make voting just as painful? If it will help you win a few elections, even better! Going to the ER at a busy city hospital takes forever and can be quite expensive. So it's fine if the government mandates healthcare that is also expensive painful to use. If you don't like it? Cry me a river. You can always just not go to the doctor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #56 January 21, 2014 Hey, I'm perfectly willing to go with the alternative of taking thumbprints. Yet I was shouted down more strongly for that than requiring down form of ID.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #57 January 21, 2014 KennedyHey, I'm perfectly willing to go with the alternative of taking thumbprints. Yet I was shouted down more strongly for that than requiring down form of ID. Some people have had thumbs amputated in accidents. Why do you hate the disabled? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #58 January 21, 2014 I think an index finger print and a note that reads "has no thumbs" is a fairly positive form of identifying someone. With appropriate use of commas in the note, this solution scales to injuries of varying magnitudes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #59 January 21, 2014 champuI think an index finger print and a note that reads "has no thumbs" is a fairly positive form of identifying someone. With appropriate use of commas in the note, this solution scales to injuries of varying magnitudes. Of course all these prints need to be entered into a national database, matched to a name, for it to actually do anything.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #60 January 21, 2014 SkyDekker***I think an index finger print and a note that reads "has no thumbs" is a fairly positive form of identifying someone. With appropriate use of commas in the note, this solution scales to injuries of varying magnitudes. Of course all these prints need to be entered into a national database, matched to a name, for it to actually do anything.... NSA can handle it (and probably has).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #61 January 21, 2014 SkyDekker***I think an index finger print and a note that reads "has no thumbs" is a fairly positive form of identifying someone. With appropriate use of commas in the note, this solution scales to injuries of varying magnitudes. Of course all these prints need to be entered into a national database, matched to a name, for it to actually do anything.... Whoa, whoa, whoa... who said anything about actually doing something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
