Two Different Views of Welfare

[rickjump1 0]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/rep-sheila-jackson-lee-change-word-welfare-transitional-living-fund
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee: Change the Word 'Welfare' to 'Transitional Living Fund'


http://allenbwest.com/2014/01/failed-50-year-progressive-war-poverty/
For the record, conservatives believe strongly in a safety net to help those who
are truly deserving. However, liberals have no problem with the safety net
becoming a hammock, and a very expensive one at that.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[davjohns 1]

I can't quite agree with either one.

Quote A: We have third and fourth generation welfare recipients in the US. What are they transitioning from and too?

Quote B: Liberal politicians might be happy buying votes by providing a hammock. But I think the average liberal just wants to make sure nobody is forgotten / those who need get what they need.

The trick is making the system efficient enough to cover those who need without covering those who just want.

Conservatives advocate cutting the money to force efficiency and pretend nobody will get left out in the process.

Liberals advocate providing more money to make sure everyone is covered and pretend those who are milking the system aren't really stealing taxpayer money with government help.

Both use the fringe to support their argument. Yes, there are those who are deserving and are slipping through the cracks. Yes, there are those who are milking the system and slipping through the cracks. Nobody really knows what the numbers are, but they still have their opinions.

Nobody is actually trying to make the system more efficient or quantify the problems. That wouldn't get as many votes.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[RonD1120 58]

davjohns

I can't quite agree with either one.

Quote A: We have third and fourth generation welfare recipients in the US. What are they transitioning from and too?

Quote B: Liberal politicians might be happy buying votes by providing a hammock. But I think the average liberal just wants to make sure nobody is forgotten / those who need get what they need.

The trick is making the system efficient enough to cover those who need without covering those who just want.

Conservatives advocate cutting the money to force efficiency and pretend nobody will get left out in the process.

Liberals advocate providing more money to make sure everyone is covered and pretend those who are milking the system aren't really stealing taxpayer money with government help.

Both use the fringe to support their argument. Yes, there are those who are deserving and are slipping through the cracks. Yes, there are those who are milking the system and slipping through the cracks. Nobody really knows what the numbers are, but they still have their opinions.

Nobody is actually trying to make the system more efficient or quantify the problems. That wouldn't get as many votes.

Very well stated. I just noticed that N. Gingrich has a new book discussing the fifty years of failure on LBJ's war on poverty. I agree with his thesis. If you keep doing what you've always done you will keep getting what you've always got.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,648]

RonD1120

***I can't quite agree with either one.

Quote A: We have third and fourth generation welfare recipients in the US. What are they transitioning from and too?

Quote B: Liberal politicians might be happy buying votes by providing a hammock. But I think the average liberal just wants to make sure nobody is forgotten / those who need get what they need.

The trick is making the system efficient enough to cover those who need without covering those who just want.

Conservatives advocate cutting the money to force efficiency and pretend nobody will get left out in the process.

Liberals advocate providing more money to make sure everyone is covered and pretend those who are milking the system aren't really stealing taxpayer money with government help.

Both use the fringe to support their argument. Yes, there are those who are deserving and are slipping through the cracks. Yes, there are those who are milking the system and slipping through the cracks. Nobody really knows what the numbers are, but they still have their opinions.

Nobody is actually trying to make the system more efficient or quantify the problems. That wouldn't get as many votes.

Very well stated. I just noticed that N. Gingrich has a new book discussing the fifty years of failure on LBJ's war on poverty. I agree with his thesis. If you keep doing what you've always done you will keep getting what you've always got.

The same Gingrich that said: "Absolutely. I mean, how can you justify the level of wealth in those big towers in New York City and the level of poverty in those alleys? And without talking about government, say, surely a society that cared, that believed every person was endowed by their creator with the right to pursue happiness, would come up with a better solution than 22,000 children that are homeless. And I think that the Republican Party has an obligation to rethink some of its indifference to the very poor. "

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,648]

Meanwhile, in the US military, even more inequality.
www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140108/BENEFITS05/301080005/Military-brass-immune-pension-rate-cuts

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FreefallingCari 0]

davjohns

I can't quite agree with either one.

Quote A: We have third and fourth generation welfare recipients in the US. What are they transitioning from and too?

Quote B: Liberal politicians might be happy buying votes by providing a hammock. But I think the average liberal just wants to make sure nobody is forgotten / those who need get what they need.

The trick is making the system efficient enough to cover those who need without covering those who just want.

Conservatives advocate cutting the money to force efficiency and pretend nobody will get left out in the process.

Liberals advocate providing more money to make sure everyone is covered and pretend those who are milking the system aren't really stealing taxpayer money with government help.

Both use the fringe to support their argument. Yes, there are those who are deserving and are slipping through the cracks. Yes, there are those who are milking the system and slipping through the cracks. Nobody really knows what the numbers are, but they still have their opinions.

Nobody is actually trying to make the system more efficient or quantify the problems. That wouldn't get as many votes.

Making the system more efficient would not get as many votes, because both sides have such extreme views and unwillingness to compromise. 1000% true.

Another issue I see is that overhauling the system would require uncomfortable choices to be made, and for people to finally face the reality that LIVING costs money. People want to have as many children as they want to have, they want to have the Iphones, material possessions, etc.. AND they want someone else to pay if their choices cost them too much money.

People need to get real, and use logic. You need to plan your lifestyle carefully, only having as many children as you can provide for, and not having "stuff" one cannot afford.

This is logical, but not cushy and comfortable to talk about.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

Meanwhile, in the US military, even more inequality.
www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140108/BENEFITS05/301080005/Military-brass-immune-pension-rate-cuts

That's totally unfair. Special treatment? That sounds like Congress.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

Everything they do is in the name of votes, and they are persistent in finding new ways. Pandering to illegal immigrants by allowing them to obtain drivers licenses, free healthcare and free college tuition for their children are the latest. Remember the Obama phones? I believe it was mentioned Bush did something similar. All of these freebees are just a way of buying votes by one party or the other.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 1,648]

rickjump1

Everything they do is in the name of votes, and they are persistent in finding new ways. Pandering to illegal immigrants by allowing them to obtain drivers licenses, free healthcare and free college tuition for their children are the latest. Remember the Obama phones? I believe it was mentioned Bush did something similar. All of these freebees are just a way of buying votes by one party or the other.

In the interests of accuracy, The ACA does NOT cover illegals. However, they are covered under EMTALA, passed under Reagan in the 1986.

The "obamaphone" is an urban legend (aka "lie"). www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

And I support REQUIRING drivers licenses and mandatory insurance for anyone who drives on public roads, as a basic safety issue, regardless of any other documentation they may or may not have.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

***Everything they do is in the name of votes, and they are persistent in finding new ways. Pandering to illegal immigrants by allowing them to obtain drivers licenses, free healthcare and free college tuition for their children are the latest. Remember the Obama phones? I believe it was mentioned Bush did something similar. All of these freebees are just a way of buying votes by one party or the other.

In the interests of accuracy, The ACA does NOT cover illegals. However, they are covered under EMTALA, passed under Reagan in the 1986.

The "obamaphone" is an urban legend (aka "lie"). www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

And I support REQUIRING drivers licenses and mandatory insurance for anyone who drives on public roads, as a basic safety issue, regardless of any other documentation they may or may not have.It doesn't matter who passed EMTALA. Besides, illegal aliens can walk into any emergency room be treated.

If they are here illegally, they should be held awaiting deportation; not driving. Legal visitors or legal immigrants are welcome with a drivers license and insurance.

Another liberal speaking up for future democrats...

Edited to add: Reagan gave them amnesty and Bush ignored them. Now that makes it ok for today?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 1,648]

rickjump1

It doesn't matter who passed EMTALA. Besides, illegal aliens can walk into any emergency room be treated.

You need to do more homework.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

***It doesn't matter who passed EMTALA. Besides, illegal aliens can walk into any emergency room be treated.

You need to do more homework.http://www.aim.org/briefing/illegal-immigrant-health-care/"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it." ...."Obama has suggested a possible solution to giving publicly-funded insurance to illegal immigrants: make them legal. As Steven Camarota wrote, 'President Obama and others have indicated their strong desire to legalize those in the country illegally with the hope that this would help solve the problem of uninsured illegal immigrants.'”

Now why would BHO and his friends do that?

They still get free service at hospital emergency rooms.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[FreefallingCari 0]

Shoot, half the people who visit the ER get their healthcare for FREE

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[wmw999 2,148]

Thank you. I think your characterizations identify two of the most divergent directions, and ones that many people really identify with.

Or at least I do, and that's the most important
Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rickjump1 0]

FreefallingCari

Shoot, half the people who visit the ER get their healthcare for FREE

Sure, you can't turn them away. Right?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 1,648]

rickjump1

"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it."

Lacking a means of enforcement? So you're suggesting it's modeled on laws preventing felons and the mentally deranged from getting guns?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,648]

rickjump1

***Shoot, half the people who visit the ER get their healthcare for FREE

Sure, you can't turn them away. Right?

Blame Reagan.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

***"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it."

Lacking a means of enforcement? So you're suggesting it's modeled on laws preventing felons and the mentally deranged from getting guns? No, that one works. They wouldn't go for that one. Edited to add: No law works unless it's enforced. It's interesting that there are so few prosecutions by the feds for lying on applications for firearms. There have been recent additions on the applications regarding the mentally unstable, but without any enforcement, things will remain the same resulting in more excuses to take away firearms from honest citizens.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

******Shoot, half the people who visit the ER get their healthcare for FREE

Sure, you can't turn them away. Right?

Blame Reagan. Sure. He didn't help matters.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 1,648]

rickjump1

******"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it."

Lacking a means of enforcement? So you're suggesting it's modeled on laws preventing felons and the mentally deranged from getting guns? No, that one works..

Very droll. Tell it to the victims of Cho, Lanza, Holmes, Kazmierczak, Alexis, etc., none of whom had any difficulty laying their hands on firearms.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

*********"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it."

Lacking a means of enforcement? So you're suggesting it's modeled on laws preventing felons and the mentally deranged from getting guns? No, that one works..

Very droll. Tell it to the victims of Cho, Lanza, Holmes, Kazmierczak, Alexis, etc., none of whom had any difficulty laying their hands on firearms.http://mashable.com/2014/01/03/executive-order-buy-gun/"The White House issued two executive actions on Friday that aim to beef up background checks for would-be gun buyers and keep the weapons away from those at risk of harming themselves or others."

What's your solution? Remember, all it takes is one rigged propane tank.........multiple ways without firearms.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

*********"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it."

Lacking a means of enforcement? So you're suggesting it's modeled on laws preventing felons and the mentally deranged from getting guns? No, that one works..

Very droll. Tell it to the victims of Cho, Lanza, Holmes, Kazmierczak, Alexis, etc., none of whom had any difficulty laying their hands on firearms.

If they had, in fact had difficulty, they just would have used something else.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

rickjump1

************"The new health care reform bill explicitly bans healthcare benefits for illegal immigrants, but it lacks a key component, which is some way to enforce it."

Lacking a means of enforcement? So you're suggesting it's modeled on laws preventing felons and the mentally deranged from getting guns? No, that one works..

Very droll. Tell it to the victims of Cho, Lanza, Holmes, Kazmierczak, Alexis, etc., none of whom had any difficulty laying their hands on firearms.http://mashable.com/2014/01/03/executive-order-buy-gun/"The White House issued two executive actions on Friday that aim to beef up background checks for would-be gun buyers and keep the weapons away from those at risk of harming themselves or others."

What's your solution? Remember, all it takes is one rigged propane tank.........multiple ways without firearms.

Yep . . . We need to outlaw sparklers and aerosol cans. The mentally ill must fill out a form when buying air freshener now.

But really all you need to start with is a pressure cooker. Ask any Bostonian.

It's all dandy that one can seem to be outraged about someone harming someone else, but it's not the tools fault.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[FreefallingCari 0]

Correct.

When I did a clinical rotation in the ER, I saw women come in for pregnancy tests, people come in for sniffles or allergies without respiratory distress, even STD testing.

The county health department offers it for 100% free, but you can only come in during business hours. These people will also never pay an ER bill, so it is essentially "free".(for them))

I believe we should have the right to turn away people. Obviously we should quickly assess for resp distress, as well as other emergencies, but a pregnancy test is not ER worthy.

Allergies and sniffles are not ER worthy.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[Southern_Man 0]

FreefallingCari

Correct.

When I did a clinical rotation in the ER, I saw women come in for pregnancy tests, people come in for sniffles or allergies without respiratory distress, even STD testing.

The county health department offers it for 100% free, but you can only come in during business hours. These people will also never pay an ER bill, so it is essentially "free".(for them))

I believe we should have the right to turn away people. Obviously we should quickly assess for resp distress, as well as other emergencies, but a pregnancy test is not ER worthy.

Allergies and sniffles are not ER worthy.

The ER does not have to treat for such conditions. They do have to screen but here are the lmits of EMTALA:

To comply with EMTALA, the participating hospitals must provide within its capabilities a nondiscriminatory medical screening examination (MSE) to determine if the patient has an emergency medical condition. An emergency medical condition is defined as "a condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity, such as severe pain, for which the lack of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in placing the patient in serious jeopardy, serious impairment to bodily functions, or serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part."

Also, hospitals which do not accept Medicaid or Medicare have no obligations under EMTALA.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"