rushmc 18 #1 February 20, 2013 A better look at lights like CFLs LED's are going to be a different story however The company I work for is already changing out our HPS lights to LED's Better light and lower usage http://images.powermonitors.com/white-papers/WP107.pdf"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #2 February 20, 2013 From the link and as I posted before. CFL's do NOT save as much energy as you think QuoteWhat is evident looking at these waveforms is the clear non-linear wave shape of the current waveform in Figure 2 with the CFL lamp as the load. It is heavily distorted– to achieve the lower W specified it’s necessary to “chop” every cycle and conduct for a much shorter time period, and thus reduce the demand for current. However, what this also will do is induce a higher level of harmonic distortion and create a condition that will decrease the power factor significantly. The overall effect for most residential customers is the saving of Watts by using this method. For the utility provider, it means increasing their delivery of Var to compensate and added capacitance to improve the overall power factor. What this means is any customer who may be billed on VA or Power Factor, could face an increase of costs rather than a lowering. Along with the added harmonic content into the neutral cables, that will flow towards the substation transformers. If those transformers were never designed to accept elevated harmonic content it could mean premature failures over time, due to the increased heating effect of those harmonics. So this is the result QuoteAs the Federal Energy and Independence Act of 2007 becomes law, the depletion of balanced loads will only add to our demand as the standard traditional incandescent lamp is slowly extinguished forever."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CygnusX-1 42 #3 February 20, 2013 QuoteIf those transformers were never designed to accept elevated harmonic content it could mean premature failures over time, due to the increased heating effect of those harmonics. Looks like this was written for the power industry. In a veiled attempt to convince consumers not to use certain power saving lighting. But the real reason is what I quoted above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #4 February 20, 2013 QuoteQuoteIf those transformers were never designed to accept elevated harmonic content it could mean premature failures over time, due to the increased heating effect of those harmonics. Looks like this was written for the power industry. In a veiled attempt to convince consumers not to use certain power saving lighting. But the real reason is what I quoted above. We deal with power factor all the time Customers are penalized for low power factor as well as having to pay for special meters because they will use more power than traditional meters will show As for any atempt, was anything false or misleading? The gov picked a winner here And because they do this type of thing there are always consequenses many do not see"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 122 #5 February 21, 2013 yep, our utility and others I work with do the same thing, when the PF drops below a certain level the customer is given the opportunity to pay for the problem they created the reality is that in most large applications (big buildings, etc.) there is not enough poor-PF load to cause a significant issue, but some rates are kVA rates so the specific customer pays for it all we hang cap banks on the system to compensate for these issues, and all customers end up paying those costs through rates kind of like the "excess" costs caused by point-source generators, all customers end up paying the cost of the problem caused by just a few customersGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #6 February 21, 2013 Quoteyep, our utility and others I work with do the same thing, when the PF drops below a certain level the customer is given the opportunity to pay for the problem they created the reality is that in most large applications (big buildings, etc.) there is not enough poor-PF load to cause a significant issue, but some rates are kVA rates so the specific customer pays for it all we hang cap banks on the system to compensate for these issues, and all customers end up paying those costs through rates kind of like the "excess" costs caused by point-source generators, all customers end up paying the cost of the problem caused by just a few customers Our tariffs require those causing the problem pay for it if we can identify the problem maker The problem with CFL's (as you know) is it becomes a system wide problem cause by many little problems And as you say, all the little problems are pay are paid for by all rate payers CFL's were never a good idea LED's on the other hand......"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
