deltron80 0 #26 June 8, 2011 QuoteQuote Try reading a history of the Middle East not written by an orthadox Israeli, Southern Baptist, or Glenn Beck. I'm not trying to put you down, but don't you think if EVERY HISTORIAN ON EARTH disagrees with you that you might want to modify your understanding of events slightly? I mean come on you just sound foolish now. Can't be as foolish as saying there is NOT A SINGLE HISTORIAN ON EARTH that is an orthodox Jew or Southern Baptist. You tend to avoid actual facts, preferring to make sweeping generalizations like the cow patty above. Citing a single book isn't exactly support for your claim. Or can you prove there were no anti Jew Pogroms before WWII? This should be a pretty easy factual statement to prove or disprove. It's not a subjective interpretation of reality. I'm not trying to prove there were no anti Jew pogroms before WWII anywhere...not really the point The fact that all of your rebuttals are semantics arguments doesn't really help move the conversation forward. The book I suggested was just a simple text book. I'm sure you can easily find just as many things in there to support your distorted view as to oppose it. I didn't think you knew very much about the Middle East based on what you were saying so I was just suggesting a good general history on it, that's all. We can agree to disagree..the only sweeping generalization I can really make is that the final historical inevitability is that Israel/Palestine will eventually be a either a single unified state or a charred nuclear wasteland one of the two. I am very certain of that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #27 June 8, 2011 Did you have to work really really hard to get this completely and utterly clueless on the history of this conflict.. or is there some underlying darkness you are hiding by digging out a lead apologist for all that muslim anger...evil westerners have ruined their countries. All evidence to the contrary I guess that is the definitive work for those who wish to believe in a future Caliphate. Sorry but you have picked the utmost in bias as your base point.. and are seemingly unwilling to look at the BULK of the issues that have brought this conflict to our world in this time and place. You completely discount all that which happened to the other guys and how that played out after WWII You were forced to read that in a class in college weren't you. I know.... just stick your fingers in your ears .. cover your eyes.... and go NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH Murderous Jews are Evil NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH Jewish boots on the necks of poor muslims... NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #28 June 8, 2011 Quote Did you have to work really really hard to get this completely and utterly clueless on the history of this conflict.. or is there some underlying darkness you are hiding by digging out a lead apologist for all that muslim anger...evil westerners have ruined their countries. All evidence to the contrary I guess that is the definitive work for those who wish to believe in a future Caliphate. Sorry but you have picked the utmost in bias as your base point.. and are seemingly unwilling to look at the BULK of the issues that have brought this conflict to our world in this time and place. You completely discount all that which happened to the other guys and how that played out after WWII You were forced to read that in a class in college weren't you. I know.... just stick your fingers in your ears .. cover your eyes.... and go NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH Murderous Jews are Evil NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH Jewish boots on the necks of poor muslims... NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH Not so much, but alright Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29 June 8, 2011 Face it man.. the thing is a complete and utter whitewash for Islam.. Me thinks Mr Cleveland's bias towards anyone not of that religion is very very deep. It does not point out the horrendous events in that history that was perpetrated against unbelievers. Jews are just the latest group that had better convert... or die. Getting that viewpoint thouogh certainly matches with what I saw in that part of the world.... you should travel there... if you like this book you will LOVE all those nice warm fuzzies that only a Borat could love. Really... go visit... bring up Israel in your conversation... you will find all kinds of fellow travellers... watch their news.... you will find kindred spirtis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #30 June 8, 2011 ????? I like how one guy suggested that your facts are wrong (which they are as usual) and maybe you should actually read a book before you spew your garbage, an you take it to the extreme. You must constantly drink mountain dew ur so EXTREEM. In your crazy fucked up world all tan people hate Jews. Its just a Muslim thing. We are born we get milk and a hate the Jews book. When we turn 2 we get our suicide vests. Your soooooooo smart. As for your "convert or die" comment you must be retarded if you think Islam is the only religion that has blood on its hands. It does however make the perfect point. You have so much bias in you that you see every act a Muslim makes as evil and you excuse all evil acts done by Israel. I think in your mind the truths, actual historical events are not even related to the real world any more. You just believe what you want. Any one who thinks Israel is just free and clear of all blame is obviously blind. It seems you only hate hypocrisy when Republicans get caught in some sex act but you sure love it when it comes Israel. Keep thinking 2+2 = JelloI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #31 June 8, 2011 Quote ????? I like how one guy suggested that your facts are wrong (which they are as usual) and maybe you should actually read a book before you spew your garbage, an you take it to the extreme. You must constantly drink mountain dew ur so EXTREEM. In your crazy fucked up world all tan people hate Jews. Its just a Muslim thing. We are born we get milk and a hate the Jews book. When we turn 2 we get our suicide vests. Your soooooooo smart. As for your "convert or die" comment you must be retarded if you think Islam is the only religion that has blood on its hands. It does however make the perfect point. You have so much bias in you that you see every act a Muslim makes as evil and you excuse all evil acts done by Israel. I think in your mind the truths, actual historical events are not even related to the real world any more. You just believe what you want. Any one who thinks Israel is just free and clear of all blame is obviously blind. It seems you only hate hypocrisy when Republicans get caught in some sex act but you sure love it when it comes Israel. Keep thinking 2+2 = Jello Ah ha.. the head apologist for any act by the brethren has shown up... surprise surprise. I did try reading it at the local library.. DUDE you will love it.. by all means BUY THE FUCKING THING...fund further apologies with the next book excusing all the crap that the Muslim world wants to call their victimization at the hands of the evil western countries... blah blah blah... its all the wests fault.. its all the jews fault.. blah blah blah.... but don’t believe that is the only truth out there because it aint. Its the perfect book for you and your fellow travellers. Hey I learned my facts from your brethren...first hand just how seriously they are seriously fucked up they are... BUMMER that you do not like me or anyone else calling them on it Israel has done some things to keep it in existence.. and they used the same tactics your brethren have.. they did wrong... your guys have done far more in the wrong things list .... On balance.. you cant handle the fact that if the Jews quit.. and gave up in their arms and retaliations.. your buddies would exterminate them.. on the flip side if your buddies gave up their incessant attacks... peace would break out... and the region might finally find prosperity. As far as history.. DUUUUUUDE……. you came from the same educational system as Ahmadinejad.... I think you blaming others for bias.... is ... like the content of most of his speeches....which are completely and utterly laughable... just like BORAT. Face it Darius.. that whole justice thing you blabber on and on about... it really does not apply equally... just to the brethren... no one else need apply. Would you like to repeat that oft used lie about how inclusive Muslim countries are of Jews and Christians again???? The numbers in the REAL history of the world do not support your ASSertions Then there are those oh so oppressed Palistinians who are so tollerant... RIIIIIIGHT Oh Darius..... Israel.. 7.7 Million People... of which 20% are Arab Israeli's... better than 1.5 million, and many of them fought or are the descendants of those who fought, those who attacked Israel repeatedly. They did not follow the Grand Mufti in his desire to exterminate the Jews before WWII or after. They fought for THEIR country.... Israel You and your fellow travellers constantly refer to the European Jews who can't tan... gee thta is outright racism.. but thats ok... we get it...you have to use that to deny that Jews even have a right to be in the Holy Land.. psssst.. as I have posted over and over... they can TAN just fine since most of them have that genetic disposition since they kept to themselves no matter their travels.. Genetics rule man... but I know you dig that whole denial racist pap coming out from those great voices of inclusion in those mosquesOh and the Justice Loving Muslims of Iran.... yeah.. not so great on that whole inclusion thing either... 150,000 in 1948... now less than 11000.. far better than most of the Muslim countries of the region percentage wise other than Morocco...which accounts for almost half of the 7000 in all Muslim lands .. really...you think that’s inclusive??? Question.. how many thriving Jewish synagogues.. or Christian churches do you find in your brethren’s lands.... inclusion.. blah blah blah.... [url" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_Israel_and_the_Palestinian_territories" ]FACTS Darius...[/url] CONVERT OR DIE..... unless you can manage to run away. Now that is some TRUTH... and it’s obvious... you can't handle the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #32 June 8, 2011 If a group repeatedly tries to destroy a country since it was created by the UN in 1948, and repeatedly fails, then shouldn't they expect to have suffered? The Israelis have repeatedly shown they are willing to live in peace with their neighbors, as shown by their actions when Sadat decided that peace was the right path, as shown by the Oslo agreement that Arafat chose to reject (when his own negotiators said it was a good deal) because he didn't want peaceful coexistence. The other side have repeatedly shown they only want it to look like they are willing to live in peace. They want to be perceived as the innocent victims of a bully while they try to hide their real objective of the destruction of Israel and killing Jews. Actually, they don't hide that objective very well, despite help from the BBC, NPR, and others, and that says a lot about those that choose to not acknowledge it. I think any monetary aid to the palestinians should be contingent upon it being matched with the money stolen by Arafat - make his wife give it up for the good of their cause. Those states and groups that want to kill Jews and destroy Israel want to do that not because of what has happened in the decades since 1948, they wanted it since the beginning of Israel (and even before). These islamofacists do not fit the mold of the oppressed group that is fighting back due injustices done to them. They just don't like how WWII ended and what the UN did after that. Repeated wars haven't worked for them, but they don't want to give up land/sovereignty when they lose the wars, they want a perpetual do-over until they get what they want. I think it can end in a positive way if and when some Sadat-like leaders emerge. Sadat didn't have his change of heart because the Israelis were apologizing, he changed because he saw that war wasn't serving his people well, he realized his people could live in peace with the Jews. War pushed him to that realization. Peace in the region depends on some more guys with the wisdom of Sadat on the Arab side.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #33 June 8, 2011 QuoteQuote Saidam believes that all those who stormed Israel's borders on Nakba Day were simply in rehearsal mode. "Those who have broken the fear barrier, will be willing to do it again," he says. "Israel focuses on September, but they ought to focus on the 5th of June, the anniversary of the Six-Day War. There are already increased calls to march into the borders again." So there's no point in Israel making peaceful concessions, it sounds like. More violence is coming no matter what. israel has never made any peaceful concessions - so no change there. and it looks like more peaceful protesters are going to be shot dead by those nice israelis you love so much. i suppose if its ok for syria to do it then its ok for israel to do it. looks like it's all coming to a head at the un in september...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 June 8, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Saidam believes that all those who stormed Israel's borders on Nakba Day were simply in rehearsal mode. "Those who have broken the fear barrier, will be willing to do it again," he says. "Israel focuses on September, but they ought to focus on the 5th of June, the anniversary of the Six-Day War. There are already increased calls to march into the borders again." So there's no point in Israel making peaceful concessions, it sounds like. More violence is coming no matter what. israel has never made any peaceful concessions - so no change there. and it looks like more peaceful protesters are going to be shot dead by those nice israelis you love so much. i suppose if its ok for syria to do it then its ok for israel to do it. looks like it's all coming to a head at the un in september... Have you ever considered getting some help with that delusion problem?? I guess the Israeli's never made peace with Egypt with Sadat... or with the Jordanians.... DD.. seriously.... it really does not look good when you do nothing but spout the PA authority line.... you should love this...http://www.israelifrontline.com/2011/05/official-pa-media-jews-have-no.html?amp& Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #35 June 8, 2011 there's no point, really, in argueing with amazon. laugh a little at her use of capitals and her brainwashed 'all israelis are blessed' and 'all arabs are evil' mentality, and present the case for palestine and the palestinians - that's about all one can do with her type of hate. it's taken a while but the tide of history is now with the creation of palestine. the un will decide as it did with the creation of israel...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #36 June 8, 2011 how's your new 'messiah' netanyahu going to get out of a two thirds un majority....stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37 June 8, 2011 Quotethere's no point, really, in argueing with amazon. laugh a little at her use of capitals and her brainwashed 'all israelis are blessed' and 'all arabs are evil' mentality, and present the case for palestine and the palestinians - that's about all one can do with her type of hate. it's taken a while but the tide of history is now with the creation of palestine. the un will decide as it did with the creation of israel... And the clueless brigade marches on.... you guys should get a room with some of your good buddies in the PA.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #38 June 8, 2011 Quotethe tide of history is now with the creation of palestine That could have happened many times over, a long time ago, but peace with Israel isn't compatible with them, so they choose to not agree to it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #39 June 8, 2011 QuoteQuotethe tide of history is now with the creation of palestine That could have happened many times over, a long time ago, but peace with Israel isn't compatible with them, so they choose to not agree to it. Hell the idiots in the PA can't even allow themselves to believe the Jews have ANY rights to the land at all.. like several people here, denial is everthing.. no matter how delusional it is. Just because they repeat the same fantasy over and over... DD and his fellow travellers can't come to grips with the reality that history keeps smackin them up side the head with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #40 June 8, 2011 you'll be happy then when the un gives a yes vote to the creation of the state of palestine...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #41 June 8, 2011 Quoteyou'll be happy then when the un gives a yes vote to the creation of the state of palestine... Should have been done a long time ago..Especially since Jordan decided to give it up a long time ago. It could have happened a long long time ago.. if the PA was not GOAT FUCK STUPID and in complete denial about reality!!!! How come their Arab bretheren never helped em out though... Do you have any clue how much land ... how many homes.. how much wealth.. the Arabs stole from the Jews that used to be their citizens ( the living and all the dead ones)??? Perhaps those countries should have transferred that wealth to all those poor Palistinians who supported them in their desire to muder all the Jews then and even now. Hell hoiw much in lockstep with them are you??? Do Jews deserve a country... or do you even think they have a right to exist at all??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #42 June 8, 2011 QuoteDo Jews deserve a country... jews/israelis deserve a country and have a country. the threat now is that they overbuild the threats around them (especially iran), overreach - and then lose their country as a result... (...sound familiar)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wsd 0 #43 June 8, 2011 Quote????? I like how one guy suggested that your facts are wrong (which they are as usual) and maybe you should actually read a book before you spew your garbage, an you take it to the extreme. You must constantly drink mountain dew ur so EXTREEM. In your crazy fucked up world all tan people hate Jews. Its just a Muslim thing. We are born we get milk and a hate the Jews book. When we turn 2 we get our suicide vests. Your soooooooo smart. As for your "convert or die" comment you must be retarded if you think Islam is the only religion that has blood on its hands. It does however make the perfect point. You have so much bias in you that you see every act a Muslim makes as evil and you excuse all evil acts done by Israel. I think in your mind the truths, actual historical events are not even related to the real world any more. You just believe what you want. Any one who thinks Israel is just free and clear of all blame is obviously blind. It seems you only hate hypocrisy when Republicans get caught in some sex act but you sure love it when it comes Israel. Keep thinking 2+2 = Jello Darius she just does not know you or Jamile very well that's all. You and I have spoken enough to understand each other and Jeanne is pretty similar if you take the riled up redhead thing out of it. Personally I wish the murdering bastards within the Muslim religion would off themselves and leave the rest of Islam alone. I also wish the Zionists would do the same. Most people want to just get along, in Israel you will find Israelis of Arab decent (muslim) actually serving in the Israeli Army. They live together, work together, their kids play together and there are no problems until the uptight murderous assholes tell them what to think and who they should like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #44 June 8, 2011 QuoteQuote????? I like how one guy suggested that your facts are wrong (which they are as usual) and maybe you should actually read a book before you spew your garbage, an you take it to the extreme. You must constantly drink mountain dew ur so EXTREEM. In your crazy fucked up world all tan people hate Jews. Its just a Muslim thing. We are born we get milk and a hate the Jews book. When we turn 2 we get our suicide vests. Your soooooooo smart. As for your "convert or die" comment you must be retarded if you think Islam is the only religion that has blood on its hands. It does however make the perfect point. You have so much bias in you that you see every act a Muslim makes as evil and you excuse all evil acts done by Israel. I think in your mind the truths, actual historical events are not even related to the real world any more. You just believe what you want. Any one who thinks Israel is just free and clear of all blame is obviously blind. It seems you only hate hypocrisy when Republicans get caught in some sex act but you sure love it when it comes Israel. Keep thinking 2+2 = Jello Darius she just does not know you or Jamile very well that's all. You and I have spoken enough to understand each other and Jeanne is pretty similar if you take the riled up redhead thing out of it. Personally I wish the murdering bastards within the Muslim religion would off themselves and leave the rest of Islam alone. I also wish the Zionists would do the same. Most people want to just get along, in Israel you will find Israelis of Arab decent (muslim) actually serving in the Israeli Army. They live together, work together, their kids play together and there are no problems until the uptight murderous assholes tell them what to think and who they should like. Yes...I'm pretty sure it's the extreme 10% fringe on each side causing all the problems. They are the ones that should be "exterminated" if anyone so that all the normal folks can get on with things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #45 June 8, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Saidam believes that all those who stormed Israel's borders on Nakba Day were simply in rehearsal mode. "Those who have broken the fear barrier, will be willing to do it again," he says. "Israel focuses on September, but they ought to focus on the 5th of June, the anniversary of the Six-Day War. There are already increased calls to march into the borders again." So there's no point in Israel making peaceful concessions, it sounds like. More violence is coming no matter what. israel has never made any peaceful concessions - so no change there. and it looks like more peaceful protesters are going to be shot dead by those nice israelis you love so much. i suppose if its ok for syria to do it then its ok for israel to do it. Syria shot its own. This is different from a nation defending its border. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandsomeSalad 0 #46 June 10, 2011 Quote On balance.. you cant handle the fact that if the Jews quit.. and gave up in their arms and retaliations. Hey look its Amazon not knowing the difference between instigation and retaliation. Not surprising given the lack of general historical understanding to begin with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandsomeSalad 0 #47 June 10, 2011 Quote as shown by the Oslo agreement that Arafat chose to reject (when his own negotiators said it was a good deal) Rudimentary history - you fail at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandsomeSalad 0 #48 June 10, 2011 Quote Syria shot its own. This is different from a nation defending its border. It isn't defense when you occupy land and it isn't defense when its marching, unarmed civilians - typical kelpdiver fails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #49 June 10, 2011 hey, look, it's the lettuce defense! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #50 June 10, 2011 QuoteQuote On balance.. you cant handle the fact that if the Jews quit.. and gave up in their arms and retaliations. Hey look its Amazon not knowing the difference between instigation and retaliation. Not surprising given the lack of general historical understanding to begin with. So you are saying... we can just wait for another loud sucking PLOOOOP from you as we can from DD... ok got it. Dont you have a flight to catch to Damascus... to join your bretheren in solidarity??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
