Israel used 'incredible violence' against Gaza aid flotilla

[dreamdancer 0]

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this should calm the waters !

Not a chance... delusions about the evil IDF will go on and on and on.... the gullible are too entrenched in their little fantasy land

They are also incapable of seeing the true nature of the people they are supporting

have a good look in that mirror

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Amazon 7]

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You're deliberately ignoring the legal facts clearly set out in posts #130 & 131, and in doing so, you're blowing it out your ass.

murder is murder - whether you are wearing a uniform or not.

can you not see this?

war is war -whether you are wearing a uniform or not

Can you not see this?

[Amazon 7]

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I'm asking questions which you seem to find offensive, hence resorting to your comments.

Nonsense. You made misstatements of international law, twice, and I corrected you, twice. Now you're just doing the 2-step.

you're not capable of correcting anyone - they were in international waters and the blockade is disputed. you can keep copying and pasting the same thing over and over again - but you're just stuck in 'legalese land' - come back to reality

Reality is what you learn about in things like history classes. Some people pay attention in them and actually learn.In that learning are things like treaties... and wars... and blockades...and what happens when a naval force enforces a blocakade.....that is the reality that jumped right you and smacked a bunch of dumb asses.... who are now finding out.. that the whole thinking with the little head and the 72 virgins thing... did not work out so good for them.

[Amazon 7]

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if they wanted to deliver aid they could have delivered through Israel as suggested (and Israel did deliver everything that was on the ships to Gaza).

absolute drivel - the humans in gaza are still not getting the aid they need.

Complete an utter hogswallop. There is an open border right there with Egypt. If the A rab world wanted to help all those poor helpless Palestinians there in Hamasistan....they could be helping their A Rab brothers... with the proceed of the land and goods they stole from jews all over the A Rab world at the time Israel was being formed... Why arent they helping with food and medicines?????

[Amazon 7]

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this should calm the waters !

Not a chance... delusions about the evil IDF will go on and on and on.... the gullible are too entrenched in their little fantasy land

They are also incapable of seeing the true nature of the people they are supporting

have a good look in that mirror

I see someone standing there laughing my ass off AT you


DUDE... if you believe in how great they are... JOIN THE STRUGGLE... head for Hamasistan already.

[dreamdancer 0]

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this should calm the waters !

Not a chance... delusions about the evil IDF will go on and on and on.... the gullible are too entrenched in their little fantasy land

They are also incapable of seeing the true nature of the people they are supporting

have a good look in that mirror

I see someone standing there laughing my ass off AT you


DUDE... if you believe in how great they are... JOIN THE STRUGGLE... head for Hamasistan already.

once again - the israelis have won the war. they have their own state. they will be able to keep it. but people like you are urging them on and on until they will make a strategic error (should hitler have invaded russia) and, because of people like you, they will pay the price for over reaching. it won't be nice and i'll be thinking of the israeli friends who will be stuck there while you're laughing in the mirror.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Skyrad 0]

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Looks like Israel caught some more anti-Semitic martyr wannabes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11425408

Funny how no one dared to comment about this, as it doesn't fit their world view perception.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Kennedy 0]

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Looks like Israel caught some more anti-Semitic martyr wannabes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11425408

Funny how no one dared to comment about this, as it doesn't fit their world view perception.

Funny how you compare a couple of jews on a 32 foot catamaran to the "flotilla." Funny how no one died because no one attacked soldiers with deadly weapons. Funny how there's no evidence that these folks set out with the express desire to become martyrs (while many on the flotilla did). Funny how this was just one more media stunt. Funny how all the aid on the flotilla was delivered to Gaza by the Israelis after it was checked, just like they said it would be. Funny how Gaza is ruled by a terrorist organization whose charter calls for the annihilation of Israel, that those terrorists are doing their best to accomplish that goal, but you expect Israel not to act like it is at war. Funny how you ignore that Israel and Egypt enacted the blockade after an Israeli soldier was captured. Funny how you ignore that the blockade was legal. Funny how israeli soldiers only resorted to deadly force after begin attacked. Funny how... no, this shit isn't funny anymore.

So tell me, other than that they tried to sail through the blockade, what was similar about these two situations?

edit for typo

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[falxori 0]

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Funny how no one dared to comment about this

ok, I'll comment.
Just shows you that Israel will stop any ship trying to run the blockade. It will do so regardless of who is on board and it will not use any force when none is needed.
here, much like on the other ships (beside the big Turkish one when the soldiers where attacks) no force was needed and no one got hurt.

The fact that no one commented on a peaceful ending only shows you why the people on the original ship would never have gone without violence. they wanted and needed violence to get media attention and the only way to do that was to attack the Israeli soldiers. so don't give me crap about being "peaceful activists". they were there for one reason and one reason only and it wasn't to deliver any aid beside media aid.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[dreamdancer 0]

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they were there for one reason and one reason only and it wasn't to deliver any aid beside media aid.

it was to highlight the inhumane and murderous way the palestinians are treated by their occupiers - and they succeeded in proving their case quite conclusively to us, the rest of the world.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Kennedy 0]

Really. Inhumane and murderous. Last I checked Gaza shares a land border with Egypt. So why isn't all kids of love and affectiong flowing into Gaza from the rest of the Arab world?

Try to keep up. Despite the nonsense you might hear on al jazeera, the blockade is and was legal. And Israel did deliver the aid from the flotilla ships, just like it said it would. So the aid from the flotilla got to Gaza, but the schmucks on the ships wanted to be on TV. The best way to do that is to attack soldiers with deadly weapons and force them to defend themselves. "If it bleeds, it leads." This was just another media stunt.

The responsibility for the deaths rests squarely on the people on that last ship who decided to attack the soldiers. Of course HAMAS cheerleaders like you aren't going to accept that, but don't try to speak for the rest of the world. It makes you looks like Ahmadinejad (aka not exaclty the model of rational thought and mental stability).

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[dreamdancer 0]

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The responsibility for the deaths rests squarely on the people on that last ship who decided to attack the soldiers.

the responsibility lies with the people who pulled the triggers. just because you are wearing a uniform doesn't mean you can murder and say 'i was ordered to'. here in the uk we had a similar incident we call 'bloody sunday'.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Skyrad 0]

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no evidence that these folks set out with the express desire to become martyrs (while many on the flotilla did).

Show me the evidence.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Kennedy 0]

Google "flotilla martyr"

There are video interviews, al jazeera excerpts, newspapers quoting wanna-be shahid's diaries.

edit for spelling

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[pchapman 262]

I doubt "international waters" is an issue. In general, nobody could enforce blockades if it had to be enforced within 12nm or whatever of a coast and port. (Although laws have changed and the situation different, I don't recall that the blockades of Germany & the UK in the world wars took place only within 12 miles of shore...)

The UN HRC report suggests that a blockade can be made on the high seas. (And leaving aside what "national" waters might mean to the Gaza.)


The problem with laws around war these days is that everything can be considered a crime because the rules are so vague. I'm not sure much can be done about that.

Two examples:

The UN HRC report does look at the issue of the legality of the blockade. One may or may not agree with the conclusions but it is interesting to see the legal arguments.

One issue is that a blockade is not allowed to continue if it causes "disproportionate damage on the civilian population". The report seems to say, Palestinians are short of food etc., therefore the blockade is disproportionate, and NOT legal.

Yet I suppose Israel can say, "No it isn't disproportionate, as long as both the terrorists AND civilians are starving to death in equal proportion."

So then the UN HRC report goes on to suggest that when legal blockade doesn't exist, a boat can only be stopped for certain military purposes, such as if it "was making an effective contribution to the opposing forces’ war effort". The report goes on to conclude that even Israel didn't think it was a big or immediate military threat, but the report thinks Israel was worried about the propaganda effect of the blockade runner. Thus the report concludes that, again, Israel didn't have the right to board the boat.

Yet Israel could easily say that a propaganda victory IS an effective contribution to the other sides war effort. Willpower and support are an important part of warfare.


Whether or not the force used at a tactical level was way too high, examples like this show how international laws that could make something a crime, don't automatically make them so, based on one interpretation.

[Skyrad 0]

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Funny how no one dared to comment about this

ok, I'll comment.
Just shows you that Israel will stop any ship trying to run the blockade. It will do so regardless of who is on board and it will not use any force when none is needed.
here, much like on the other ships (beside the big Turkish one when the soldiers where attacks) no force was needed and no one got hurt.

The fact that no one commented on a peaceful ending only shows you why the people on the original ship would never have gone without violence. they wanted and needed violence to get media attention and the only way to do that was to attack the Israeli soldiers. so don't give me crap about being "peaceful activists". they were there for one reason and one reason only and it wasn't to deliver any aid beside media aid.

Show me where I describe them as "peaceful activists" you won't be able to because I haven't. I simply don't know yet, I'm waiting for the second report before I make my mind up either way. Unlike you and so many others here on both sides who have such a bias that they don't seem to be able to keep an open mind but let their predjudices colour their opinion of what or what is not fact.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Despite the nonsense you might hear on al jazeera

Ever watched Al Jazeera, or are you basing your opinion on prejudice?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Kennedy 0]

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The responsibility for the deaths rests squarely on the people on that last ship who decided to attack the soldiers.

the responsibility lies with the people who pulled the triggers. just because you are wearing a uniform doesn't mean you can murder and say 'i was ordered to'. here in the uk we had a similar incident we call 'bloody sunday'.

Do you even read the drivel you post here? No one was ordered to kill anyone. The Israelis went in with pepperball launchers. They are basically paintball markers that fire OC rounds instead of paint. That sounds like orders to control the crowd and redirect the ship.

I'm still waiting for your "evidence" that the nine dead were executed rather than shot in self defense. There is video of people on the boat attacking soldiers. Have you got anything other than hatred of Israel to support your claims of execution?

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[Kennedy 0]

All the time. I also watch BBC, German channels, and Japanese stations (in English). I like to see what's going on in the world, and get different takes on it. Sometimes I even tune in to the Communist Broadcasting Conspiracy up north in Canuckistan.

Do you dispute my statement that al jazeera shows programs/allows it's talking heads to spew nonsense?

(I'm not saying lots of US media doesn't do the same thing, but I don't accuse people of being prejudiced when they point it out, whether it's MSNBC or FOX News)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Skyrad 0]

Actually it was a question rather than an accusation.

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Do you dispute my statement that al jazeera shows programs/allows it's talking heads to spew nonsense?

As you say it happens to some extent in all media outlets, none of them are totally unbiased in every respect. The reporting I've seen on AJ has been mixed, I think in the last few years its improved massivly with the adition of some top news reporters. But of course its not perfect any more than Sky, CNN, FOx etc.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[obelixtim 100]

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You never saw the video where the activists stated on video that they were going to incite violence?

Actually no, I didn't, all I saw was video of activists prior to the departure specifically saying they were non violent. I invite you to post a link.

And as for those attacking me rather than dealing with the questions, I am NOT anti Israel nor pro Hamas. I have many Israeli friends. The whole situation stinks, ands Israel does not help itself or the situation with its actions.

I've been to villages in Southern Poland and seen the mass graves on the edges of town where the local Jews were rounded up and shot. There are still no Jews in those villages 65 years after the war ended.

I've visited Auschwitz, a more creepy place on the planet I have never seen. How many of you who are attacking me have done that journey?. Its easy to criticize wrapped in your all powerful US security blanket.

I am well aware of, and support Israels reasons for existing. However I do not subscribe to the theory that they can commit whatever crime or atrocity they like just because it happened to them.

Firing hundreds of white phosphorus shells into civilian areas in Gaza, or boarding ships in INTERNATIONAL waters and killing people is NOT justified in any way, when alternatives are available.

Paint ball guns????.

What a crock. Obviously you believe the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese. You've swallowed the Israeli propaganda, hook, line and sinker.

The Israelis have lost a lot of sympathy and support in western nations over the last few years. Ask yourself why that may be.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Amazon 7]

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You never saw the video where the activists stated on video that they were going to incite violence?

Actually no, I didn't, all I saw was video of activists prior to the departure specifically saying they were non violent. I invite you to post a link.

And as for those attacking me rather than dealing with the questions, I am NOT anti Israel nor pro Hamas. I have many Israeli friends. The whole situation stinks, ands Israel does not help itself or the situation with its actions.

I've been to villages in Southern Poland and seen the mass graves on the edges of town where the local Jews were rounded up and shot. There are still no Jews in those villages 65 years after the war ended.

I've visited Auschwitz, a more creepy place on the planet I have never seen. How many of you who are attacking me have done that journey?. Its easy to criticize wrapped in your all powerful US security blanket.

I am well aware of, and support Israels reasons for existing. However I do not subscribe to the theory that they can commit whatever crime or atrocity they like just because it happened to them.

Firing hundreds of white phosphorus shells into civilian areas in Gaza, or boarding ships in INTERNATIONAL waters and killing people is NOT justified in any way, when alternatives are available.

Paint ball guns????.

What a crock. Obviously you believe the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese. You've swallowed the Israeli propaganda, hook, line and sinker.

The Israelis have lost a lot of sympathy and support in western nations over the last few years. Ask yourself why that may be.

Yes Paint ball guns.. with less than lethal pepper. BUT they also had sidearms some of which were taken by your peacefull humanitarians and the men roping down were shot. The IDF men were beaten with pipes and clubs and stabbed with knives.

I don't know about you... but if someone is beating me and trying to take my side arm to kill me... or trying to stab me to death... uhhhhh DUUDE you will no longer be breathing, and I will NOT be shooting you in center mass where you may be wearing body armor, I will be helping you see clearly with a third eye.

[Kennedy 0]

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Actually no, I didn't, all I saw was video of activists prior to the departure specifically saying they were non violent. I invite you to post a link.

Google "flotilla martyr, click the (video) link

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Paint ball guns????.

What a crock. Obviously you believe the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese. You've swallowed the Israeli propaganda, hook, line and sinker.

Paintball markers are used in crowd control scenarios to throw paintball type plastic capsules that contain OC powder rather than paint. It is not the most common tool, but it is widespread in police and crowd control applications. Educate yourself before making comments like that.

[url "http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread577623/pg1"]Video[/url ] that shows Israeli solider trying to use a paintball type marker on the crowd. About 52 or 53 seconds in. (ignore the site, that's just the first one I found with good video)

edit to fix link

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[dreamdancer 0]

they had paintball guns but they also had pistols, rifles, helicopters, communications, plenty of backup (a whole army) and they should have had the common sense not to open fire but to withdraw until the ship was out of international waters. it was a f**k up all round. blaming the victims is stupid and makes you look inhumane.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Darius11 12]

WOW.


So many extremists on here who deny facts for the sake of Israel...Oh wait that has been the US stance from the get go.

To all the blind:
Facts- The Ship was under a Turkish flag in international waters. Israel did not have the right to board PERIOD. Get over your bull shit and fucked up moral gymnastics.

I don’t care if they came on the boat with lolly pops. If a thief enters your home you have every right to beat the fuck out of him and if he shoots you! guess what the thief is still the one who broke the law. He is the initial person who broke the law by entering a property that he does not have permission to be in.


Any one who thinks of the IDF (Amazon) as a honorable military force has a fucked up view on honor. They are the most violent have been known to kill man, woman, and child. I am sure if one of these kids was Little Miky smith your attitudes would change. Its unfortunate that the same outrage is not experienced when brown civilians get killed.

Its actually fucking disgusting to watch people make excuses for child murderers.

I find it equally ridiculous that so many of you expect the world to just take Israelis word on the situation or take Israeli account as gospel and none bias, but the actual international groups who are designed to be independent are some how too bias.

No matter who is saying it your denying the facts that Israel has, is, and will most likely continue to break international laws.

That is facts you can not deny.

Now go twist and turn your “standards” till you can make sure your right regardless of the facts.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain