Pot smokers

[jcd11235 0]

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People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

Don't be so sure about that. Cannabis intoxication does not impair driving ability like alcohol intoxication does. I've posted on the topic previously here and here with links to sources.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Lucky... 0]

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The same reason many people go through drive throughs instead of going home and grilling up a hamburger. Or going to a 7-11 because it is closer than a much cheaper supermarket. This is a fast paced society. Also, don't forget; most live in apartments and/or (especially here in San diego) are the rolling homeless without tracts of land to grow. Legalization will decrease prices (sin taxes not being included because I can't predict what taxation programs would come into place with this) and I believe the lesser price (possibly by mass production by corporations) will actually make it more expensive to grow your own stuff. Pretty much like fruits and vegetables now.

The growers (er, I mean the people who know people who know growers) here can speak to this, but I would guess that the cost of growing pot is less than any tax that would be proposed, nevermind the actual price. It's not much harder than growing tomatoes, though indoor lighting would have an electric cost.

I suspect this is the big trap in the movement to legalize for the purpose of taxation. The home growers are going to be hard to tax, and if the tax is high enough, there will be great financial incentive to do it, in addition to the quality arguments being made here.

Altho I despise all drugs, the moral nuts are the biggest stopper to legalization of drugs.

[nanook 1]

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I'm not going to do your research for you.

I don't want you to do reasearch for me. I've already done it. I want you to tell my why these studies are wrong.

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are aware that enough government anti-drug propaganda has been debunked as to call into question their credibility on the subject (to say the least).

These (NIH, NIDA, ect ect) Govt organizations were the ones that did the debunking!!! MORML even references them.
Your site, though, mostly lists in their references the studies they try to debunk and well known debunked studes. They don't have have refereces to studes done that actually debunk the old studes. They are references to opinion articles. And worst off, they refer to thier own articles to write articles. A lot of circular referencing happening in there.

I find NORML more legitimate that this!

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Well, you're only about 100% off on your read of me. I'm speaking from a position of formal education and extensive personal experience

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I get it. Anything that is less desirable to you is "ruined." How tolerant of you

Holy crap!! Are you serious?? People lost their businesses, property value went down. Money was lost here. People left replaced by less desirables and the school and community tax base went down considerably. Seriously man. Do you own anything of valule? A house? Rental property? Anything?
I feel very sorry for you. It would have been forgivable and a "pat on the head" for you if you were in college and under 25.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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I smoked the ganja for ten years in my younger days. Quit a whole thirty years ago, just as the moderately strong Columbian of the 1970's was giving way to the killer buds people smoke nowadays. I don't like it anymore and think the buds are way too fucking strong. People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

That said, I'm also strongly in favor of legalization, taxation, and the same kind of controls that are in place over alcohol. People who smoke are not criminals. But there are too many criminals involved in the sale & distribution and they'll never be taken out of the picture until it's legalized.

As with alcohol, some people can handle the weed better than others. Some people handle it quite well and lead capable and responsible lives. Those who can't handle it have a MEDICAL problem. Taxes from the sale of legal ganja can help pay for treatment of the stoners who get messed up.

This is exactly where I'm at. As a general rule I think druggies, even pot heads, are losers. Anyone so pathetic to need to walk around all fucked up is an idiot. That said, I think it s/b legalized, esp with alcohol and ciggs legal. That said, I wish the FAA would quit their lame piss tests allowing the junkie to Golden Seal it and pass. If the FAA had real testing, as well as the employer mandate, I would have massive work, at least for the short-run.

Crimes committed before acquisition of whichever drug and the crimes after use show alcohol to be a much worse drug than most, yet in fascist America that is the cheapest and most legal drug.

[Lucky... 0]

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People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

Don't be so sure about that. Cannabis intoxication does not impair driving ability like alcohol intoxication does. I've posted on the topic previously here and here with links to sources.

Are you sure about that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L8DcjFOD1k

[jcd11235 0]

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I don't want you to do reasearch for me. I've already done it. I want you to tell my why these studies are wrong.

Select some assertions from them, then. I'm not going to address them "line by line." That would be doing your homework for you.

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Your site, though, mostly lists in their references the studies they try to debunk and well known debunked studes. They don't have have refereces to studes done that actually debunk the old studes.

Whatever you feel like ignorantly claiming. rolls eyes> If you're aware of a more comprehensive site than Erowid.org w/r/t information about controlled substances, feel free to share it.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Lucky... 0]

Phuck smot pokers

[pirana 0]

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If yer that talkative without being high, please, never post while stoned!

Very funny.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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My point in bringing this up is to help to get people to think about things outside of their immediate bubble. I don't think that 99% of marijuana users think about the large scale of where that little bit of personal use came from. What was involved, the costs in money, people and property. The whole scope of the situation.

There is no question that more people need to just think out of their bubbles in general. The same sort of things you've said about marijuana could be said of a number of other common place things that we consume. Ever purchase a diamond?

That angle could be spun off into a fierce debate on just about anything consumed in the US; since we consume so much more per person of just about every commodity the world has to offer. The impact of our overall gluttony and the historical methods for feeding our appetite at the expense of others is, just my personal opinion, unfortunately what our culture is probably going to be most remembered for.

Growing or producing your own, of any commodity, is the most honorable and respectful approach.

Wax on, wax off.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

Don't be so sure about that. Cannabis intoxication does not impair driving ability like alcohol intoxication does. I've posted on the topic previously here and here with links to sources.

You need some qualifiers to that broad brush. I guarantee a person can smoke enough pot to pass right fucking out at the wheel - much less impair their driving.

True, the two substances impair in a different way, (interesting to note however that both are depressants - alcohol and canabinol), but at sufficient intake - they both impair.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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This is exactly where I'm at. As a general rule I think druggies, even pot heads, are losers. Anyone so pathetic to need to walk around all fucked up is an idiot. That said, I think it s/b legalized, esp with alcohol and ciggs legal. That said, I wish the FAA would quit their lame piss tests allowing the junkie to Golden Seal it and pass. If the FAA had real testing, as well as the employer mandate, I would have massive work, at least for the short-run.

Crimes committed before acquisition of whichever drug and the crimes after use show alcohol to be a much worse drug than most, yet in fascist America that is the cheapest and most legal drug.

Is everyone who uses it, to any degree, someone you consider as all fucked up? Do you feel the same about alcohol? Is anyone who uses it, even in moderation, all fucked up?

Agreed, someone stumbling around in a stupor is all fucked up. I move in circles of drinkers and smokers. Strictly anecdotal, but I see a lot more all-fucked-upness from alcohol than pot.

You begin your post by stating "This is exactly where I'm at" then state a position quite contrary to the post you quoted. Who's all fucked up?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[jcd11235 0]

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People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

Don't be so sure about that. Cannabis intoxication does not impair driving ability like alcohol intoxication does. I've posted on the topic previously here and here with links to sources.

You need some qualifiers to that broad brush. I guarantee a person can smoke enough pot to pass right fucking out at the wheel - much less impair their driving.

True, the two substances impair in a different way, (interesting to note however that both are depressants - alcohol and canabinol), but at sufficient intake - they both impair.

I'm guessing that you didn't read the posts or the links contained therein.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[tbrown 26]

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People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

Don't be so sure about that. Cannabis intoxication does not impair driving ability like alcohol intoxication does. I've posted on the topic previously here and here with links to sources.

Oh for Christ's sake, how many times have we all seen some stoner creeping along the interstate at 40 mph, leaning way forward with his nose against the windshield ? From personal experience I KNOW that pot gives you a kind of tunnel vision. Not literally visually, but more like a tunnel focus. In the old days of Mexican dirt weed, or even Columbian, it wasn't so bad. But with today's buds, you can kill somebody. ANY recreational drug use has to be responsible. As far as your argument goes, I know people who say the same thing about how well they drive when they're liquored up. We simply cannot allow any of you on the road.

Besides, if you EVER want to see the ganja legalized, you're going to have to compromise as far as allowing for a DUI offense. That's just the way it is.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Lucky... 0]

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This is exactly where I'm at. As a general rule I think druggies, even pot heads, are losers. Anyone so pathetic to need to walk around all fucked up is an idiot. That said, I think it s/b legalized, esp with alcohol and ciggs legal. That said, I wish the FAA would quit their lame piss tests allowing the junkie to Golden Seal it and pass. If the FAA had real testing, as well as the employer mandate, I would have massive work, at least for the short-run.

Crimes committed before acquisition of whichever drug and the crimes after use show alcohol to be a much worse drug than most, yet in fascist America that is the cheapest and most legal drug.

Is everyone who uses it, to any degree, someone you consider as all fucked up? Do you feel the same about alcohol? Is anyone who uses it, even in moderation, all fucked up?

Agreed, someone stumbling around in a stupor is all fucked up. I move in circles of drinkers and smokers. Strictly anecdotal, but I see a lot more all-fucked-upness from alcohol than pot.

You begin your post by stating "This is exactly where I'm at" then state a position quite contrary to the post you quoted. Who's all fucked up?

Yes, that's exactly where I'm at; I think drugs, booze, pot, etc are fucked up and the people who use to any degree and undesireables to me. At the same time, it shouldn't be illegal to kill yourself, limit yourself or make yourself all fucked up, so prohibition is BS. It might be hard for some people to understand that reasoning, but I think drugs suck, but prohibition sucks too.

[Lucky... 0]

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People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

Don't be so sure about that. Cannabis intoxication does not impair driving ability like alcohol intoxication does. I've posted on the topic previously here and here with links to sources.

Oh for Christ's sake, how many times have we all seen some stoner creeping along the interstate at 40 mph, leaning way forward with his nose against the windshield ? From personal experience I KNOW that pot gives you a kind of tunnel vision. Not literally visually, but more like a tunnel focus. In the old days of Mexican dirt weed, or even Columbian, it wasn't so bad. But with today's buds, you can kill somebody. ANY recreational drug use has to be responsible. As far as your argument goes, I know people who say the same thing about how well they drive when they're liquored up. We simply cannot allow any of you on the road.

Besides, if you EVER want to see the ganja legalized, you're going to have to compromise as far as allowing for a DUI offense. That's just the way it is.

Totally. Motor skills/reactions are impared probably by correcct action, certainly by reaction time if nothing else. We've all been that stoned idiot, I don't see how we can say it's anything but hendering.

[stayhigh 2]

Blah,, Blah, Blah,,,,,,,,
i hate alcoholics more than anything...

4:19 forever...

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Bolas 5]

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it shouldn't be illegal to kill yourself, limit yourself or make yourself all fucked up, so prohibition is BS. It might be hard for some people to understand that reasoning,

+1

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

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Ocean beach of San Diego CA for one. In the 70’s, it was a family beach community despite the hippie era. The bluffs that travel from the south was pretty much a private and clean affair. The Hells Angels moved in and brought the weed, among other stuff. We kicked out the HA’s and the weed decreased. Then 13 years ago, a dispensary opened and we were back to square one. A lot of family business that survived the Angels stay, quit and left. All that was able to stay was “munchies” places and business that glorified pot. The families (the biggest spenders) once again, went somewhere else, and all that was left were the penniless college students from outside the community that went to the bars. We paid more in taxes and bought tiles to lay on Newport Ave sidewalk to give money that the new customers weren’t supplying to the district. Everything to the north blighted and us up on the hill look down on what is really a hippie preserve/trustafarian hangout.

I just stayed at Ocean Beach for a few days in October and thought it was a nice area. Sure there were some homeless people and people whom were smoking weed (not necessarily the same ones) but I fault the homelessness more on the absolutely insane cost of housing out there.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[nanook 1]

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but I fault the homelessness more on the absolutely insane cost of housing out there

The homeless themselves, with all things separated, are attracted to the climate and the tourists handing out money. Our homeless issue is really not much different than other areas of San Diego. But we have a unique breed that is not neccesarily considered homeless. these are the ones you see hanging out around the beaches and up and down Newport, Bacon, sunset cliffs and W point loma streets. They are what we called Trusifarians and are usually in the late teens to their late twenties. They are not conisdered homless because they have the ability to immediately get funds or go back to their studio apartments. It's a "homeless and beach bum 420 lifestye" status they are attracted to, it seems. Mostly spoiled laziness though.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[stayhigh 2]

i also just stayed at Ocean Beach, and also there were millionaire pot heads who owned nice beach front home with mercedes in the parking garage... what is your point???

everyone smokes now days,, get over it.....

and honestly pot heads don't really get high,,, pot heads just get 'head changed' is all...

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[nanook 1]

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i also just stayed at Ocean Beach, and also there were millionaire pot heads who owned nice beach front home with mercedes in the parking garage... what is your point???

everyone smokes now days,, get over it.....

and honestly pot heads don't really get high,,, pot heads just get 'head changed' is all...

I think you are referring to me. You stayed at Ocean Beach. I live there. And yes, many people smoke it. But, many more create issues with it. You want to get this stuff legalized? Why don't you start some self-policing and correct pot smokers who do wrong. Otherwise, we will continue to for you. Take some Ownership.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

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i also just stayed at Ocean Beach, and also there were millionaire pot heads who owned nice beach front home with mercedes in the parking garage... what is your point???

everyone smokes now days,, get over it.....

and honestly pot heads don't really get high,,, pot heads just get 'head changed' is all...

I think you are referring to me. You stayed at Ocean Beach. I live there. And yes, many people smoke it. But, many more create issues with it. You want to get this stuff legalized? Why don't you start some self-policing and correct pot smokers who do wrong. Otherwise, we will continue to for you. Take some Ownership.

Sounds fine to me. But why should it be much different than alcohol in almost every category: Overall legality; minimum age of legal consumption; societal self-policing, taking ownership, etc.? I've listened to the debate over this for 30+ years now, and I still haven't heard any truly convincing, global arguments on why it should be treated much differently than our society treats alcohol.

[Lucky... 0]

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it shouldn't be illegal to kill yourself, limit yourself or make yourself all fucked up, so prohibition is BS. It might be hard for some people to understand that reasoning,

+1

But don't think I'm advocating any drug use or that I enjoy being around druggies; I don't. I just don't see drug use as a crime unless you are driving or in a responsible postion for kids, etc. That goes for prescription pill poppers too.

[rhys 0]

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I've listened to the debate over this for 30+ years now, and I still haven't heard any truly convincing, global arguments on why it should be treated much differently than our society treats alcohol.

Money bro, none other;

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At the end of prohibition some of the initial supporters openly admitted its failure. A quote from a letter, written in 1932 by wealthy industrialist John D. Rockefeller, Jr., states:

“When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before.”

However, when it came to marijuana and hemp prohibition, Rockefeller took a different stance. He was a known supporter of hemp prohibition along with Harry J. Anslinger, the United States First "drug czar" and William Randolph Hearst, well known media mogul. As to be expected, Hearst sympathized with the drug czar in his war against marijuana. Hearst's paper empire, which included hundreds of acres of timber forests, was threatened by the renewable resource of hemp that could be re-grown yearly, unlike Hearst's timber. In his newspapers, Hearst published many of Anslinger’s fabricated stories, aiding the anti-marijuana movement that eventually led to its prohibition in the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act. Rockefeller had his interests in oil, and after founding Standard Oil in 1870, soared to become the first U.S. dollar billionaire, and Standard Oil was even convicted of monopolistic practices and broken up in 1911. There seems no way that hemp could have had a chance when the media, the government, and the oil industry were swiftly making little room for hemp to survive.

Not your money, not the governments money but the private sector!

This is a re-accuring pattern, that has been used as a template for the private gain of those that put themselves in power for personal gain for 'A LONG TIME'.

Sheeple don't learn from history and they consistantly allow themselves to be subdued and essentially improsoned by thier own apathy.

The 'Cunts' at the top just laugh and flip you the bird with a wlcoming smile on thier face.

This is not about law anymore, not when all the laws are broken without consequence by those with absolute power.

***
Why must we stay where we don't belong?

Because there's never gonna be enough space,
So eat the meek, savor the taste.
It's always gonna be a delicacy,
So Lick your chops and eat the meek.

The factory mass producing fear, bottled,
Capped, distributed near and far
Sold for a reasonable price
And the people, they love it, they feed it
Brush with it, bathe with it, breathe it
Inject it direct to the blood

It seems to be replacing love.

Because there's always gonna be token truth
Forgotten code discarded youth.
You know there's always gonna be pedigree,
One own the air, one pay to breathe!


NOFX

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[freethefly 6]

All I can say is WOW, Nanook! You are very well uninformed on so many levels. First, I'll speak from personal experience as to the medical value of mj. It works for me and it works for many others. You've pointed out several times that "They" (by "They". I am assuming that you are referring to such organizations such as http://www.safeaccessnow.org/ ) only use the medical argument to get high. Really holds no water as "They" would get much more higher on the powerful narcotics that are legal. There is a reason other than the pot works that it is preferred over narcotics. With narcotic, it is extremely hard to get motivated. Not so with pot. The "lazy pothead" image is a stereotype promoted through the media for entertainment. It's great comedy. Think of this, the people who made those movies were pot smokers and not at all lazy. My doctors have recommended for 15 years that I continue to smoke in order to keep weight up, nausea and to tolerate a number of side effects. There has been many of times that I do not smoke for anywhere between a week up to several months. The difference is extremely noticeable. During the times that I do smoke, I am anything but lazy nor am I not intelligent (one of the points that mj opponents harp upon). I am a 4.0 college student. In two more years I'll have my bachelor's degree in automotive and motorcycle technology. I fully plan on continuing on to a master's degree. I seldom sit still. The same goes for everyone whom I know who use marijuana. The movement to legalize would not have come this far if pot consumers were the Hollywood stereotype. For the majority of my life, I have worked extremely hard. I served time in the military, worked near 10 years performing UX/IND NDT rail inspection in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. I perform each test meticulously without one single incident behind me. I have worked in a factory building the commercial refrigeration that is in our grocery stores. I have worked as an independent contractor in construction and I have welded miles upon miles of pipe without one single break. I have never tested rail high just as I would not had done it drunk. In factory, I did. I was also on the medication Dronabinol (Marinol)(I'll be going back on it next month) http://www.drugs.com/mtm/dronabinol.html, in my experience, Dronabinol is far more dangerous than real THC. You never really know when the effect will come on. At times it was very intense while at other times it was barely effective and did nothing to alleviate the side effects of my drug cocktail. With smoked (sometimes vaporized, which eliminates the smoke as the organic material that makes up the bud is not combusted) mj the dosage effect is near immediate. I can do it during breakfast and by the time I was heading for work the immediate effect has worn off and what remained was a sense of well being. The medical aspect is reality. However, I do agree that there are those who are latching on just to smoke mj. Some of the conditions also seem ridiculous, yet I am not a medical professional and am only more knowledgeable of my own condition. I can't say what works for me will work for another but, there is plenty of evidence to say otherwise. I do not hear you arguing that the government should keep morphine from terminally ill patients, why then would you argue to do so with mj?
Your argument concerning the economics of legalization is laughable. Read the report. It was headed by Milton Friedman. http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/index.html There are numerous studies and reports by the leading experts in the field from around the world that your argument is but an annoying sound.
Moving on to your assertion that he rest of the world would balk if the U.S. decriminalized, if not legalized is false as much of the industrial world have now come to know the difference between a hard drug and mj. http://eldd.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index5769EN.html . S.A. have recently became more lax on personal use http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/southam1.htm and from Wiki (I know, not the best resource, but does contain references)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_medical_status_of_cannabis. Mexico has just this year decriminalized personal use of mj along with other types of drugs that I personally do not agree with yet, I can see the reason for doing so. Locking up small time users does nothing to alleviate the problem has history has shown. Incarceration has a horrible track record. America's own record for mj arrest dates back to 1937. Samuel Caldwell received 4 years in Leavenworth for the unspeakable crime of possessing two marijuana cigarettes. Although penalties are far less severe today, it is still a burden none the less a law that should not be in the first place.
There has also been a growing movement within law enforcement http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php It's not only medical users and recreational users who see the fallacy in the governments reasoning but there are those within it's own agency's who have come to realize that the war on marijuana has had no results and has only escalated to an astronomical waste of resources that could had been used in an area of greater concern. The rescheduling of mj as a schedule 1 drug (Dronabinol enjoys a schedule 2 classification) in 1970 has only served to demonize an otherwise basically harmless substance when compared to the legal alternative.
There are many myths concerning marijuana. The most prevalent being that mj is more powerful than the mj of the 60's and 70's. Untrue, as THC is just that, THC. The difference being that some pot has a higher concentration than other strains gives the impression that pot is far more dangerous. Given that no one person has ever died from an overdose (in my life so far I have never known of any person even overdosing on pot), the use of the term "Dangerous" should be omitted in discussion. We had sensimillia back in the 70's. Hydroponic is not anything new. There has always been the many tiers to quality mj. The "more dangerous" argument therefore can be stroked off the list.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/ http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/
In conclusion, you may not agree with me, and honestly I do not expect that you will. You may think that I am an awful person and honestly, I somehow expect you to, given your statement concerning this issue. I am not posting this to change your opinion. Only you can change your opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36KLuAZd8Qk

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young