kbordson 8 #101 September 20, 2009 Quote>Because it's NOT required by my occupation . . . It was a joke! I don't really think you need to produce a birth certificate. [shakes head] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #102 September 21, 2009 Quote Quote Quote you've quoted me enough, so get it right... it's Bordson Is the o in bolface like that on your birth certificate certificate of live birth, also? what is a bolface? That should have been, er, bol'face.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #103 September 21, 2009 Quote you've quoted me enough, so get it right... it's Bordson Sorry Bordsen . Quote And as far as you refusing to see the analogy, let me make that easier. Once things are controlled by the government (whether it's the military or health care), you, as a person, LOSE control The missed analogy was about you bringing the troops in, it was supposed to compare the concept that the people have no control over military spending or social spending, why pick on one and not the other. You say once the gov takes over it's curtains. This mess is a product of corporate America, the gov is the savior here. If the gov is the devil it's only that they failed to control the corporations enough. More gov in this situation is a good thing, not to the point of Communism of course, butlet's get off this corporate control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #104 September 21, 2009 Quote Quote you've quoted me enough, so get it right... it's Bordson Is the o in bolface like that on your birth certificate certificate of live birth, also? One semantic correction deserves another Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #105 September 21, 2009 Quote>Is the o in bolface like that on your birth certificate certificate of live birth, also? She could resolve it very easily if she would just post the original of her birth certificate. You have to wonder why she hasn't . . . If she did it would be lined out like GWB's DD214. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #106 September 21, 2009 Quote Because it's NOT required by my occupation, nor do I wish that my profession be taken over by government control. Then you better take the GPS transmitter they have hidden within your brain cavity or the helicopters will keep following you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #107 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuote QuoteCOMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM: Care for the rich to ensure they stay that way. The rich? There are roughly 45 million people uninsured in the US. That leaves about 300 million who are insured. Are you saying that all 300 million of those are rich? And about 26% I beleive w/o looking it up, are insured thru MEdicare/Medicaid. What % are insured theru their employer with such horrible insurance that they pay $500 off the top for a family of 4 in premium copay and then deductibles on top of that. And then the HMO death squads decide if they can disallow them when they make a major claim. Only a very small % actually have comprehensive insurance but there are many that want to disallow most fromhaveing complete, comprehensive insurance, they people I call COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVES. Nice fuzzy math tho. Fuzzy math? It's fact. Just because you don't like their insurance doesn't mean it's not there. And then you make sweeping, opinionated statements like "many want to disallow them..." or "employers with such horrible insurance. It sounds like you don't care if people are insured. You're just upset that some people have better insurance than others. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #108 September 21, 2009 Quote Quote Because it's NOT required by my occupation, nor do I wish that my profession be taken over by government control. Then you better take the GPS transmitter they have hidden within your brain cavity or the helicopters will keep following you. Seriously? This is your comeback? Truly a master debater Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #109 September 21, 2009 QuoteFuzzy math? It's fact. Just because you don't like their insurance doesn't mean it's not there. No, the post I replied to claimed there are 45M people uninsured, the rest are insured. That's fuzzy math, because I believe 26% of all Americans are on SS, Medicare, Medicaid. IOW's, the number of 45M / 300M don't have insurance and the rest do is blatantly wrong. QuoteAnd then you make sweeping, opinionated statements like "many want to disallow them..." or "employers with such horrible insurance. It sounds like you don't care if people are insured. You're just upset that some people have better insurance than others. Employers with horrible insurance - I've worked at places where guys with kids pay $500 premium pay, deductables, co-pays, etc. That's what I call horrible insurance, you could buy it off the street, it's basically that you don't have insurance thru work, just like conservatives want. many want to disallow them - Let's put it in context the way I wrote it: Only a very small % actually have comprehensive insurance but there are many that want to disallow most fromhaveing complete, comprehensive insurance, they people I call COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVES. Firstly I didn't write the, "them" on the backside, that was your embellishment. The theme of the statement is that few people have what I call "real insurance" where a person can actually go to the doctor or hospital and walk out well and not have a bill for several thousand dollars. Please, you are the ones who want some to have insurance, the incompassion is yours, I choose not to share by way of wanting a baseline of basic coverage for everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #110 September 21, 2009 Quote...nor do I wish that my profession be taken over by government control. That's a bit paranoid. My profession is HEAVILY controlled by the FAA and I welcome it. It s/b heavily controlled, I wish the banks were as controlled. What that is gov controled is a mess? You can say Medicare, but then have to propose another form of organization and control that wouldn't be corrupt and would be more efficient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #111 September 21, 2009 Quote What??? What about you US guys telling the rest of the world has to be armed from teeth to tooth? Cite. Pointing out that if a victim had been armed that the crime may not have happened does NOT equal "telling the rest of the world has to be armed". Quote What about the US guys sticking thier noses in nearly every corner of the world "to clean up the mess" You mean like all the posts in here asking why the US isn't in Darfur, for example? Quote The Big Brother is WHO (or at least thinks it is )??? Judging from the amount of foreigners that are telling us to do things the way THEY do, evidently it's the rest of the world. Quote Your post is just too funny. Why yes...yes, your post is.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #112 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhat % of emplyers buy a kickass policy like that? 10% maybe. In my experience, I could get this sort of coverage by working for either a very large corporation that had tens of thousands of employees and could negotiate a great rate OR a small, well-funded VC company that had kick-ass product and was competing for the best talent. Both scenarios happened in the "good" economies, not the "bad" economies, where the company paid for the insurance. I worked for a sub-500 person company that had full coverage BC/BS. Paid approx $700 on a $40k surgery. QuoteI still work as a contractor for some of the smaller companies. Now that the economy is bad, they offer insurance to their employees for sale. If I were still an employee, it would cost me about $1,000/month to insure my wife and two children - the same cost as my home mortgage. Wow. Even when my company changed insurance, I wasn't paying more than 100/month for coverage.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #113 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteKinda my point Most people don't make that kind of money to toss 12k off per year. Your point was taken - I was confirming this with my own account. Most people don't have the option to work for large telecoms and defense contractors, or small financial and Internet companies like I do. Drew also has very good education and specialized skills that make him an asset. The tens of thousands of out-of-work auto employees don't necessarily have the options we do, and those are the people that I am discussing. Right and I am all for being rewarded if you put yourself somewhere that you can get such great coverage, I don;t like that Canada restricting private health providers. I don't think a citizen should be denied coverage or required to go bankrupt if their appendix bursts. I know you're kinda on the same page. I just wonder what beats at the heart of someone who so objects to a poor family getting medical attention from checkups to surgeries. Ah, more appeal to emotion from Lucky - how (un)surprising. You keep forgetting about Medicare/Medicaid in your 'oh, but the poor aren't covered unless we pass this bill' soliliquies.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #114 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuote>Is the o in bolface like that on your birth certificate certificate of live birth, also? She could resolve it very easily if she would just post the original of her birth certificate. You have to wonder why she hasn't . . . If she did it would be lined out like GWB's DD214. At least she could PROVIDE the record, unlike the last 2 Dem candidates.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #115 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteKinda my point Most people don't make that kind of money to toss 12k off per year. Your point was taken - I was confirming this with my own account. Most people don't have the option to work for large telecoms and defense contractors, or small financial and Internet companies like I do. Drew also has very good education and specialized skills that make him an asset. The tens of thousands of out-of-work auto employees don't necessarily have the options we do, and those are the people that I am discussing. Right and I am all for being rewarded if you put yourself somewhere that you can get such great coverage, I don;t like that Canada restricting private health providers. I don't think a citizen should be denied coverage or required to go bankrupt if their appendix bursts. I know you're kinda on the same page. I just wonder what beats at the heart of someone who so objects to a poor family getting medical attention from checkups to surgeries. Ah, more appeal to emotion from Lucky - how (un)surprising. You keep forgetting about Medicare/Medicaid in your 'oh, but the poor aren't covered unless we pass this bill' soliliquies. how's granny coming along?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #116 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteKinda my point Most people don't make that kind of money to toss 12k off per year. Your point was taken - I was confirming this with my own account. Most people don't have the option to work for large telecoms and defense contractors, or small financial and Internet companies like I do. Drew also has very good education and specialized skills that make him an asset. The tens of thousands of out-of-work auto employees don't necessarily have the options we do, and those are the people that I am discussing. Right and I am all for being rewarded if you put yourself somewhere that you can get such great coverage, I don;t like that Canada restricting private health providers. I don't think a citizen should be denied coverage or required to go bankrupt if their appendix bursts. I know you're kinda on the same page. I just wonder what beats at the heart of someone who so objects to a poor family getting medical attention from checkups to surgeries. Ah, more appeal to emotion from Lucky - how (un)surprising. You keep forgetting about Medicare/Medicaid in your 'oh, but the poor aren't covered unless we pass this bill' soliliquies. how's granny coming along? She's hoping she can get that angioplasty before the Dems manage to cut the funds - thanks for asking.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 1 #117 September 21, 2009 QuoteQuotethats general welfare not healthcare!! Read federalist 41. Here is a kind of summary. … The fact is, it doesn't matter how you or I interpret the Constitution. The only interpretation that matters is the interpretation of the judicial branch. Not even the Federalist Papers trump the SCOTUS' interpretations. From United States v. Butler: The Congress is expressly empowered to lay taxes to provide for the general welfare. Funds in the Treasury as a result of taxation may be expended only through appropriation. (Art. I, § 9, cl. 7.) They can never accomplish the objects for which they were collected unless the power to appropriate is as broad as the power to tax. The necessary implication from the terms of the grant is that the public funds may be appropriated "to provide for the general welfare of the United States." These words cannot be meaningless, else they would not have been used. The conclusion must be that they were intended to limit and define the granted power to raise and to expend money. How shall they be construed to effectuate the intent of the instrument? Since the foundation of the Nation, sharp differences of opinion have persisted as to the true interpretation of the phrase. Madison asserted it amounted to no more than a reference to the other powers enumerated in the subsequent clauses of the same section; that, as the United States is a government of limited and enumerated powers, the grant of power to tax and spend for the general national welfare must be confined to the enumerated legislative fields committed to the Congress. In this view, the phrase is mere tautology, for taxation and appropriation are, or may be, necessary incidents of the exercise of any of the enumerated legislative powers. Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. Each contention has had the support of those whose views are entitled to weight. This court has noticed the question, but has never found it necessary to decide which is the true construction. Mr. Justice Story, in his Commentaries, espouses the Hamiltonian position. We shall not review the writings of public men and commentators or discuss the legislative practice. Study of all these leads us to conclude that the reading advocated by Mr. Justice Story is the correct one. While, therefore, the power to tax is not unlimited, its confines are set in the clause which confers it, and not in those of § 8 which bestow and define the legislative powers of the Congress. It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution. If Congress so chooses to pass legislation to establish and fund via taxation a universal healthcare plan, they are within their Constitutional power to do so, under (at least) the general welfare clause. First, anyone can "interpret" anything to fit what they want. Second, the whole point of the constitution is to prevent this type of twisting of the "rules" to get whatever people want. Third, the only "interpretation" that really matters is that of the people because we elect the officials that make the laws!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #118 September 21, 2009 QuoteFirst, anyone can "interpret" anything to fit what they want. Second, the whole point of the constitution is to prevent this type of twisting of the "rules" to get whatever people want. Third, the only "interpretation" that really matters is that of the people because we elect the officials that make the laws!! The only interpretation that matters is that of the SCOTUS, and they disagreed with Monroe's interpretation of the general welfare clause. The Founding Fathers provided no mechanism for the people to directly interpret or amend the Constitution.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #119 September 22, 2009 >She's hoping she can get that angioplasty before the Dems manage to cut >the funds - thanks for asking. So you are hoping that your grandmother gets socialized care, but also hope that others do not. Personally, I hope your grandmother gets the care she needs, and that other grandmothers get it as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #120 September 22, 2009 Quote>She's hoping she can get that angioplasty before the Dems manage to cut >the funds - thanks for asking. So you are hoping that your grandmother gets socialized care, but also hope that others do not. Personally, I hope your grandmother gets the care she needs, and that other grandmothers get it as well. Projecting again, Bill? Please show where I said that I hope the Dems cut the funds.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #121 September 22, 2009 >Projecting again, Bill? Please show where I said that I hope the Dems >cut the funds. Sorry, my bad. I thought you were opposed to a government-funded option for health care. (i.e. the "public option.") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #122 September 22, 2009 Quote>Projecting again, Bill? Please show where I said that I hope the Dems >cut the funds. Sorry, my bad. I thought you were opposed to a government-funded option for health care. (i.e. the "public option.") No, you didn't - you thought you'd get in a quick slam like you usually do.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #123 September 22, 2009 QuoteQuote>Projecting again, Bill? Please show where I said that I hope the Dems >cut the funds. Sorry, my bad. I thought you were opposed to a government-funded option for health care. (i.e. the "public option.") No, you didn't - you thought you'd get in a quick slam like you usually do. so you do believe in a national health service... (good for you - the story of your granny really touched my heartstrings; very emotional stuff)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #124 September 22, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote>Projecting again, Bill? Please show where I said that I hope the Dems >cut the funds. Sorry, my bad. I thought you were opposed to a government-funded option for health care. (i.e. the "public option.") No, you didn't - you thought you'd get in a quick slam like you usually do. so you do believe in a national health service... (good for you - the story of your granny really touched my heartstrings; very emotional stuff) Kevin - don't try to put words in my mouth - you really don't have the aptitude for it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #125 September 22, 2009 whenever i see these debattes on here, i always have to remember that the US is not a democracy, but a 3rd world country; of course they wouldnt have health care! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
