Or, is is because the down side makes them look stupid?

[rushmc 18]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/30/officials-say-government-set-suspend-cash-clunkers-program/

I think I got this one right but, It just started this week. I can really believe this one is over already.

Quote

Officials Say Government Set to Suspend 'Cash for Clunkers' Program
The Transportation Department called congressional offices late Thursday to alert them to the decision to halt the program.

AP

Thursday, July 30, 2009


WASHINGTON -- Congressional officials say the government plans to suspend the popular "cash for clunkers" program amid concerns it could quickly use up the $1 billion in rebates for new car purchases.

The Transportation Department called congressional offices late Thursday to alert them to the decision to halt the program, which offered owners of old cars and trucks $3,500 or $4,500 toward a new, more fuel-efficient vehicle.

The congressional officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

Through late Wednesday, 22,782 vehicles had been purchased through the program and nearly $96 million had been spent. But dealers raised concerns of large backlogs in the system, prompting the suspension.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,654]

Why does it bother you that 23,000 inefficient, polluting vehicles have been taken out of service in less than a month?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Why does it bother you that 23,000 inefficient, polluting vehicles have been taken out of service in less than a month?

Have you even thought of the consequenses?

I doubt it..........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

It will probably be extended. It's obviously one of the most effective stimulus actions the government has taken in quite a while. They're likely to find the funds in the TARP program.
One week.
Over 20,000 gas guzzling, pollution belching vehicles off the road.
Over 20,000 new cars sold.
That means heavy dealer traffic.
New bank loans.
New taxes collected by State's and localities.
And not one executive bonus of which I'm aware.

I think the government owes beer on this one

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Have you even thought of the consequenses?

I doubt it..........

Fewer gallons of fuel sold.
Less dependence on foreign oil.
Cleaner air.
More money in the pockets of people who will spend it.

Give me a minute and I'll come up with some more.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

Have you even thought of the consequenses?

I doubt it..........

Fewer gallons of fuel sold.
Less dependence on foreign oil.
Cleaner air.
More money in the pockets of people who will spend it.

Give me a minute and I'll come up with some more.

Fewer low-riders.

[BrendaHupp 0]

Quote

Have you even thought of the consequenses?

The only one that I see so far is the bill should have only allowed the credit to be used for domestic made cars. Keep the money in America!!! Support American jobs!

[Ion01 1]

Quote

Why does it bother you that 23,000 inefficient, polluting vehicles have been taken out of service in less than a month?

Because the government has no right to get involved! The government is supposed to have no place in business (even though it has put itself there in tons of other ways such as SOX). Particularly when you consider the current economy and debt of the government. All this program does is increase the debt of the government. Any the idea that they will have any impact on "global warming" is rediculous. Facts like that the earth has been cooling for the past 10 years or that the ice caps have grown at the fastest rate ever recorded or that in the past man kind has flourished during warming periods or that warming has happened numerous times in the past without any human influence ect. ect. are all ignored.
Besides, these people are paying for the gas so whats the problem. We are supposed to be free to drive a vehicle that guzzles gas if we want to....but the government took that away a long time ago and when they did they actually made vehicles less efficient with thier emissions regulations. Ever taken the emissions regulations off of your car. You get far better performance and better gas mileage.
There are other impacts to such a program that knowone has considered such as the effect on the poor. Most of the vehicles that qualified and were turned in were not what we would consider old clunkers but qualified due to their gas milage. These vehicles engines get destroyed thus reducing the amount of used cars available, thus increasing the price of the ones that are available making it more difficult for the poor to buy newer used cars because the couldn't have afforded a new one even with the rebate.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

It will probably be extended. It's obviously one of the most effective stimulus actions the government has taken in quite a while. They're likely to find the funds in the TARP program.
One week.
Over 20,000 gas guzzling, pollution belching vehicles off the road.
Over 20,000 new cars sold.
That means heavy dealer traffic.
New bank loans.
New taxes collected by State's and localities.
And not one executive bonus of which I'm aware.

I think the government owes beer on this one

You have not thought this through either but, I understand.

What I dont understand is what you have against those of very low incomes.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

What I dont understand is what you have against those of very low incomes.......

Absolutely nothing. Please don't turn this into another Lou Dobbs moment.

[BrendaHupp 0]

Quote

You have not thought this through either but, I understand.

Are you sure that idrankwhat is the one who has not thought this through? Other than the part about executive bonuses he made valid factual points. There will be bonuses obviously since they are usually tied into amount of cars sold and since this will increase that number it stands to reason that their bonuses will be higher.

Quote

What I don’t understand is what you have against those of very low incomes.......

Can you explain this statement?

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

You have not thought this through either but, I understand.

Are you sure that idrankwhat is the one who has not thought this through? Other than the part about executive bonuses he made valid factual points. There will be bonuses obviously since they are usually tied into amount of cars sold and since this will increase that number it stands to reason that their bonuses will be higher.

Quote

What I don’t understand is what you have against those of very low incomes.......

Can you explain this statement?

What happens to the price of these low value cars if all of a sudden there are fewer of them?

The engines are destroyed and the scrapped and shreded, what happens to the used car part industry? What happens to cost of parts for these kinds of cars for those who cant even afford to ues the program?

Where is the shreded metal sent to? (hint;where is most of it going today?)


This program "feels" good to many. It really is just buying votes and costing the taxpayes money with no real benifit....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

What I dont understand is what you have against those of very low incomes.......

Absolutely nothing. Please don't turn this into another Lou Dobbs moment.

Too late, you already have

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Ion01 1]

Also, these engines will eventually be melted down to make new ones which of course will add a bunch of carbon to the atmosphere during the melting down process.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Also, these engines will eventually be melted down to make new ones which of course will add a bunch of carbon to the atmosphere during the melting down process.

AND, it will be done in a country that has little of any polution control systems being used..

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Have you even thought of the consequenses?

The only one that I see so far is the bill should have only allowed the credit to be used for domestic made cars. Keep the money in America!!! Support American jobs!

Aren't an awful lot of the "imports" especially the Japanese ones, already built here?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

It will probably be extended. It's obviously one of the most effective stimulus actions the government has taken in quite a while. They're likely to find the funds in the TARP program.
One week.
Over 20,000 gas guzzling, pollution belching vehicles off the road.
Over 20,000 new cars sold.
That means heavy dealer traffic.
New bank loans.
New taxes collected by State's and localities.
And not one executive bonus of which I'm aware.

I think the government owes beer on this one

I agree. This appears to be a pretty effective program; having a hard time seeing the downside.

The points of contention brought up (the tactical, not the ideological) hardly seem significant.

Appears to be more like WPA, except with car sales instead of railroad trestles.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You have not thought this through either but, I understand.

Are you sure that idrankwhat is the one who has not thought this through? Other than the part about executive bonuses he made valid factual points. There will be bonuses obviously since they are usually tied into amount of cars sold and since this will increase that number it stands to reason that their bonuses will be higher.

Quote

What I don’t understand is what you have against those of very low incomes.......

Can you explain this statement?

What happens to the price of these low value cars if all of a sudden there are fewer of them?

The engines are destroyed and the scrapped and shredded, what happens to the used car part industry? What happens to cost of parts for these kinds of cars for those who can't even afford to use the program?..

I don't think there was any call to accuse Matt (idrankwhat) of not caring about low-income people. Nor should that point be belabored any further.

Having said that, you do raise reasonable inquiries about the price and availability of used cars and parts, and I'd be interested in seeing some answers.

[BrendaHupp 0]

I see, the old no good deed goes unpunished approach. No program is perfect and none ever made everyone happy, so deal with it. Overall, the benefits far outweigh the few negatives.

Quote

This program "feels" good to many. It really is just buying votes and costing the taxpayes money with no real benifit....

While it may make some "feel" good, to others it IS good. Some of the low income people you spoke of were able to afford reliable transportation because of it. Others were able to keep their jobs (auto industry, dealers, banks etc.). So see, it is not all bad.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Why does it bother you that 23,000 inefficient, polluting vehicles have been taken out of service in less than a month?

Because of the increase in debt associated with spending the money to buy them at well above market prices?

Or, are you not worried about debt, John?

Or perhaps you only worry about debt incurred to support programs you don't like?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

AND, it will be done in a country that has little of any polution control systems being used..

OMG! This program is more successful than I could have imagined. In one week, one simple, relatively inexpensive program not only reduces fuel demand, reduces foreign oil demand and boosts the economy but it turns right wing hardliners into science embracing, global warming adherent environmentalists whose primary concern lies with the potential impact of the poorest citizens of not only our country but the world!

WOW!!!!!! I can't wait to see how this new found concern pans out in the upcoming cap and trade and health care debates.

[BrendaHupp 0]

Quote

Aren't an awful lot of the "imports" especially the Japanese ones, already built here?

If they are built here then they are not importedThere are domestic manufactures (Ford, GM etc) that have foreign plants too, that is why I said cars that were built in the USA.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Having said that, you do raise reasonable inquiries about the price and availability of used cars and parts, and I'd be interested in seeing some answers.

In regards Rushmc's point about the program being unfair to the poor, it's also true that very few low income people are going to be able to trade a working vehicle in and spend another $10-15k at the same time, to buy a new car. Which means that only those people with the wherewithal to purchase a new vehicle to begin with are likely to benefit from this bill. So the poor might get hit two ways. The bill does nothing for them, plus it's harder for them to buy cheap used cars.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Andy9o8 0]

Actually, he made both of those points. You're off your game, dude.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

In regards Rushmc's point about the program being unfair to the poor, it's also true that very few low income people are going to be able to trade a working vehicle in and spend another $10-15k at the same time, to buy a new car. Which means that only those people with the wherewithal to purchase a new vehicle to begin with are likely to benefit from this bill. So the poor might get hit two ways. The bill does nothing for them, plus it's harder for them to buy cheap used cars.

Not true. Our family would be a great example. If we were to take advantage of the program this week we could take one 1985 clunker out of action, and also combine it with a trade in of a 34 mpg/250k mile car (running nicely) and a 26 mpg/150k small pickup. The dealer would end up selling a new car, scrapping one and gaining two fuel efficient automobiles that could be sold or auctioned.

edited to add: putting more fuel efficient cars on the road will reduce fuel demand, driving down prices. High fuel prices hit poorer families disproportionately.