Israel Preparing to Strike Iran Without U.S. Consent

[Andy9o8 0]

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So even if Isreail brakes all international laws fly thosends of miles to drop a bomb on a country that has not shot one bullet tworads them thats Irans fault?

Your historical premise - that Iran "has not fired one bullet towards Israel" - is incorrect. Hezbollah in Lebanon was concieved, funded and organized by the government of Iran in the 1970s and 80s, operating through the Iranian Ministry of Information. The connection between Iran and Hezbollah has been proven in numerous court cases in the US and elsewhere, and I personally happen to have very close professional familiarity with the trial evidence and witnesses in those cases. Hostages kidnapped and held in captivity by Hezbollah in Lebanon in the 80s have obtained numerous court judgments against the government of Iran for being directly involved in their captivity. The principal mission of Hezbollah is armed conflict against Israel with the aim of its destruction. Accordingly, every act of armed conflict by Hezbollah against Israel is actually an act of war, as defined by international law, by Iran against Israel.

Everything else...well, flows directly from that.

[billvon 2,425]

While I agree with most of your post, this:

>If Israel bombs the shit out of them, Iran has only its leadership to blame.

is akin to "we have only ourselves to blame for 9/11." After all, we were arrogant, aggressive etc. And maybe we were - but it doesn't justify killing a few thousand civilians.

[Gawain 0]

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On October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, filed a story on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.

If Ahmadinejad wants to flex he ought to be prepared for the consequences. We've pussy-footed around with this guy enough already. I think Israel realizes the US is not going to handle it so they might as well before Barry takes office.

It'd be nice to settle this diplomatically but I don't think that's a possibility.

I completely understand your points, however, I do not think direct action or diplomacy will be the factors that bring Iran around. I think it will be through supporting new movements within Iran to displace their government. The people of Iran do not like the government and its failed promises from the revolution 30 years ago.

We know the theocratic leaders will not bend from their mindsets, so we have to find the right tools within the Iranian military (which certainly can't be very thrilled either) and the best way to bring a unified groundswell from the Iranian people to change this. I'm convinced that they are the west's most natural cultural ally in the region, but for their government.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Butters 0]

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We know the theocratic leaders will not bend from their mindsets, so we have to find the right tools within the Iranian military (which certainly can't be very thrilled either) and the best way to bring a unified groundswell from the Iranian people to change this. I'm convinced that they are the west's most natural cultural ally in the region, but for their government.

What do you mean "find" ... certain agencies in our government have been doing this for years.

PS: There are no tools an agency can use when the people of a country are content. This is the reason no agencies have been successful in America (so far). Are the people content in Iran ... I don't know, I've never been there.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[kelpdiver 2]

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While I agree with most of your post, this:

>If Israel bombs the shit out of them, Iran has only its leadership to blame.

is akin to "we have only ourselves to blame for 9/11." After all, we were arrogant, aggressive etc. And maybe we were - but it doesn't justify killing a few thousand civilians.

If we Americans view the question from a detached viewpoint, there is some validity here.

However, the US has not espoused the obliteration of another nation to provoke the attack. It did have an idle intent to wipe out al Queda, given the chance, but that was in response to prior attacks by the organization. Ultimately you can argue that AQ's actions are in response to US foreign policy in the Middle East, but that claim depends very highly on your frame of reference. Yet none match the level of the actions sponsored by, and threatened, by the leaders of Iran against the Israelis.

[airdvr 198]

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PS: There are no tools an agency can use when the people of a country are content. This is the reason no agencies have been successful in America (so far). Are the people content in Iran ... I don't know, I've never been there.

I've never been either but I know there are some grumblings from the younger folks who dislike the Imam religious/political structure.

Nonetheless, it will be the government that will attempt to obliterate the Israeli's and history has shown Israel won't wait for that to happen. I say good on them.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Botellines 0]

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I think it will be through supporting new movements within Iran to displace their government.

Will you be surprise when the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil comes from Iran?

[Gawain 0]

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I think it will be through supporting new movements within Iran to displace their government.

Will you be surprise when the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil comes from Iran?

Actually, yes. They aren't arabs, and the flashpoints aren't happening there. Iran's terrorism infrastructure is focused on the eastern Mediterranean.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Botellines 0]

That is not what i am talking about. Wether they are arabs or not, they surely will not apreciate foreign intromission in their domestic affairs.

If you fund a terrorist group like you have done in the past (and probably still do), chances are that a group of the population is going to get mighty pissed at you. They may even try to blow the U.S embassy or something like that.

Will you be surprised? will you think the reason is that they hate you because you are free?

[falxori 0]

Let me start by saying that I hope Israel won't have to do it. this is not just Israel's problem but there seems to be a wish that Israel will do it so others won't have to.

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Iran has not invaded another country in more then a century

perhaps not directly. Iran is controlling and directing Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. all of which are engaged in active warfare with israel and they are one of the main reasons for the failure of the peace process. the PA was overthrown by Hamas in Gaza and lebanon is pretty much controlled by Hezbollah.

and to your "aggressor" notes, let me remind you that both have (and still do) launched unprovoked attacks on Israel. so yea, maybe Iran hasn't invade anyone themselves. the cowards use others to do that for them (and ruining their lives while doing so).

just for the record, i'm not worried about Iran using nukes against Israel, it will lead to their destruction as well. Their M.O will lead to a nuke going off somewhere without a return address...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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So even if Isreail brakes all international laws fly thosends of miles to drop a bomb on a country that has not shot one bullet tworads them thats Irans fault?

Your historical premise - that Iran "has not fired one bullet towards Israel" - is incorrect. Hezbollah in Lebanon was concieved, funded and organized by the government of Iran in the 1970s and 80s, operating through the Iranian Ministry of Information. The connection between Iran and Hezbollah has been proven in numerous court cases in the US and elsewhere, and I personally happen to have very close professional familiarity with the trial evidence and witnesses in those cases. Hostages kidnapped and held in captivity by Hezbollah in Lebanon in the 80s have obtained numerous court judgments against the government of Iran for being directly involved in their captivity. The principal mission of Hezbollah is armed conflict against Israel with the aim of its destruction. Accordingly, every act of armed conflict by Hezbollah against Israel is actually an act of war, as defined by international law, by Iran against Israel.

Everything else...well, flows directly from that.

AGAIN hypocrisy?

So I guess according to your logic the US government has declared war in the US considering we have and still do support people like Sadam, and Osama binladin right? But let me guess that’s different because we are doing it. The fact that so many of you are simply unable to look in the mirror is disturbing.

How are you so easily capable of switching what’s wrong and right depending on only who is doing the action? I wish my ethics were so flexible, oh wait no I don’t

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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I completely understand your points, however, I do not think direct action or diplomacy will be the factors that bring Iran around. I think it will be through supporting new movements within Iran to displace their government. The people of Iran do not like the government and its failed promises from the revolution 30 years ago.

We know the theocratic leaders will not bend from their mindsets, so we have to find the right tools within the Iranian military (which certainly can't be very thrilled either) and the best way to bring a unified groundswell from the Iranian people to change this. I'm convinced that they are the west's most natural cultural ally in the region, but for their government.

I agree with you But what many seem to miss is this. Iranians are very proud and will fight to death to protect their land. An action of war will do what it did when Iraq with the backing of world support attacked Iran.
The people will have to side with the government and will to make sure their land does not fall under occupation.


Historically Iran has been a target, even before oil was a commodity it was targeted for its geographical location.
If Israel dose any thing that can be viewed as an act of war all of Iran will rise, and no matter how they feel about the Islamic goverment all feeling will be put aside. That’s what the idiots who seem to think bombing is the only way miss. It is simply counterproductive to use force agints Iran.

Iran culturally and historically would be the best friend the US would have in the Middle East, and even now if you ask the people of Iran they will agree with that statement. Yet at the same time they will fight you to the death about having the right to pursue new energy technologies like nuclear.
They are willing to be partners but not someone’s bitch.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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However, the US has not espoused the obliteration of another nation to provoke the attack. It did have an idle intent to wipe out al Queda, given the chance, but that was in response to prior attacks by the organization. Ultimately you can argue that AQ's actions are in response to US foreign policy in the Middle East, but that claim depends very highly on your frame of reference. Yet none match the level of the actions sponsored by, and threatened, by the leaders of Iran against the Israelis.

I think Israeli actions speaks a lot louder then words spoken by a term limited president who is trying to please his base. The same president who when asked about what he said and what he meant about wiping of the map he answered very rationally and logically. You just choose to focus on what fits with your mind set. All the brown people are trying to hurt the poor poor Israelis. You really need to look at all sources and not just the ones that agree with you.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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However, the US has not espoused the obliteration of another nation to provoke the attack.

We don’t say it out loud you right on that.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

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So even if Isreail brakes all international laws fly thosends of miles to drop a bomb on a country that has not shot one bullet tworads them thats Irans fault?

Your historical premise - that Iran "has not fired one bullet towards Israel" - is incorrect. Hezbollah in Lebanon was concieved, funded and organized by the government of Iran in the 1970s and 80s, operating through the Iranian Ministry of Information. The connection between Iran and Hezbollah has been proven in numerous court cases in the US and elsewhere, and I personally happen to have very close professional familiarity with the trial evidence and witnesses in those cases. Hostages kidnapped and held in captivity by Hezbollah in Lebanon in the 80s have obtained numerous court judgments against the government of Iran for being directly involved in their captivity. The principal mission of Hezbollah is armed conflict against Israel with the aim of its destruction. Accordingly, every act of armed conflict by Hezbollah against Israel is actually an act of war, as defined by international law, by Iran against Israel.

Everything else...well, flows directly from that.

AGAIN hypocrisy?

So I guess according to your logic the US government has declared war in the US considering we have and still do support people like Sadam, and Osama binladin right? But let me guess that’s different because we are doing it. The fact that so many of you are simply unable to look in the mirror is disturbing.

How are you so easily capable of switching what’s wrong and right depending on only who is doing the action? I wish my ethics were so flexible, oh wait no I don’t

the US needs to stop aiding the militant groups to overthrow governments. we seem to get bit by the dog we help. look what helping Sadam and the talaban got us. but we cannot sit by and let governments like Iran do what they are doing either. the whole middle east is to fucked up and splintered to badly to do much with without hurting us down the road.
my feelings are that we should say our peace and back Israel in what they choose to do, but keep out of Irans internal structure until they choose what direction they want their country to go. then if they choose a path that is what we agree with, then help them.

[Darius11 12]

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and to your "aggressor" notes, let me remind you that both have (and still do) launched unprovoked attacks on Israel. so yea, maybe Iran hasn't invade anyone themselves. the cowards use others to do that for them (and ruining their lives while doing so).

We can go back and forth like we always do but in my opinion and almost the whole world with the exception for the US; whose media is extremely biased on the subject.

The aggression started when Israelis started building homes on top of Palestinian homes, and started expanding, and kicking the people who lived their out and it has continued since then.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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my feelings are that we should say our peace and back Israel in what they choose to do,

Why?
Why should we support a government that has violated more UN resolutions then Iraq, and practices apartheid?

I honestly don’t get why billions of our tax dollars are going too Israel.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

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my feelings are that we should say our peace and back Israel in what they choose to do,

Why?
Why should we support a government that has violated more UN resolutions then Iraq, and practices apartheid?

I honestly don’t get why billions of our tax dollars are going too Israel.

why because they are our frinds, and deserve the right to exist, just like Iran deserves the right to exist. Iran does not have the right to eliminate Israel.

[falxori 0]

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The aggression started when Israelis started building homes on top of Palestinian homes, and started expanding, and kicking the people who lived their out and it has continued since then.

do you have a specific date and time where "history" begins?
again you consider history from a certain time that suits your views, ignoring everything that happened before that.
your point in history is so vague that it isn't clear whether you are talking about 1967 or 1948 (in both, btw, the aggression wasn't started by Israel).

but instead of focusing on when it started, lets focus on when/how it ends. if you start at 1967, so we were very close to an agreement in 2000 which would have ended it. but if you're talking about 1948, the only solution that will make you happy is the destruction of Israel, which makes your views very similar to those of Hamas, Hezbollah and your beloved Iranian leadership...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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why because they are our frinds, and deserve the right to exist, just like Iran deserves the right to exist. Iran does not have the right to eliminate Israel.

Yea i agree that they have the right to exist and in no way do i wish loss of life on anyone.

But I do wonder how we can support a country that has violated humane rights, UN resolutions, and is racists.

That I don’t get. I don’t get how we can excuse all of that and more, to me it is very un-American.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

The problem is the bending of truth so people don’t have to feel bad about Israel.

1948- is when the Israelis started building homes on top of Palestinian homes. It seems you want to make that seem right or justified and can not come to grips with reality that yes your country was started by destroying lives of the people who lived on the very land that now you call your own. Peoples dreams, homes, and in some cases lives were destroyed so the Israelis could have a place.

That’s the truth. I understand that it pains you but it doesn’t mean you can changed what happened.
I can’t justify that because if someone did that to me I would very much be pissed and do every thing I can to get what I view as rightfully mine back.

Now I take the Palestinian side because they were living on the land when they were forced out. The religious idea that some how Moses believes that Israel belongs to the Jews is a bit far fetched in my book. If you go back far enough there was no Jews because there was no Jewish faith.

Zionism is a retarded idea much like the burning bush and the talking snake.
I don’t believe in anyone having a magical right to land. What I do see and have seen is how people were kicked from their homes.


I don’t know how to make it right, I am not for shedding anyones blood and wars. But I do wonder why the Palestinians ended paying the Europeans tab on the horrors of the holocaust. To me that’s not fair and I can’t just pretend it is because the truth is difficult.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

I ask you this.

What should Iran’s reaction be to an attack? What do you expect will happen? What would we do if another military force decided to attack Losalamos laboratories because they think we are irresponsible with power or afraid of new power we might be working on?

In my world words are never a good enough excuse to start wars, or to take lives, and I find people who talk about war or other peoples lives in such a casual matter disturbing. Usually what I find most disturbing is the same people who do not value others lives tend to only value certain lives that has value to them.

[Darius11 12]

I find it odd how no one on here ever takes the time to answer questions directly. Is it so frightening to think you might actually see someone elses point of view?

Here I will try to answer yours as clearly as I can.

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at what piont do you feel Israel should attack Iran?

Like any other country they have the right to attack if they are attacked. Words are not enough of an excuse and preemptive strikes can not be justified.

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how far can Iran go before you feel Iran should be attacked?

Actions, not words. Imagine if people reacted to GWB words. God, Holy war, axis of evil he has said a lot of stupid things as do all politicians who want to be elected and have a crazy base.

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the problem is not with Iran have nuclear power, it is with them (under their currant leadership) having nuclear weapons. do you think they should be able to have them?

I don’t think we have any moral ground to tell any nation they shouldn't have the same technologies or even weapons that we have. If they can make the technology what gives us the right to tell them they can not?
Again other then what you see on FOX news Iran has no history of warmongering even with the current government.
We are not the world police and most of the problems the world and we have right now is because we have been the world police.

However the biggest problem is not us being the world police but being a hypocritical corrupt world cop who does not follow a set of standards but changes standards and applies there version of right and wrong on others as they see fit.


Now answer mine

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

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I find it odd how no one on here ever takes the time to answer questions directly. Is it so frightening to think you might actually see someone elses point of view?

Here I will try to answer yours as clearly as I can.

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at what piont do you feel Israel should attack Iran?

Like any other country they have the right to attack if they are attacked. Words are not enough of an excuse and preemptive strikes can not be justified.

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how far can Iran go before you feel Iran should be attacked?

Actions, not words. Imagine if people reacted to GWB words. God, Holy war, axis of evil he has said a lot of stupid things as do all politicians who want to be elected and have a crazy base.

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the problem is not with Iran have nuclear power, it is with them (under their currant leadership) having nuclear weapons. do you think they should be able to have them?

I don’t think we have any moral ground to tell any nation they shouldn't have the same technologies or even weapons that we have. If they can make the technology what gives us the right to tell them they can not?
Again other then what you see on FOX news Iran has no history of warmongering even with the current government.
We are not the world police and most of the problems the world and we have right now is because we have been the world police.

However the biggest problem is not us being the world police but being a hypocritical corrupt world cop who does not follow a set of standards but changes standards and applies there version of right and wrong on others as they see fit.


Now answer mine

Irans reaction should be "maybe we fucked up" but most likely will be one of retaliation of some sort. as far as Israel or any other country goes, if they know they are in danger, they would be stupid to wait until after the attack but should react before they are attacked. sometimes defense starts before not after the attack. Iran is talking about the complete elimination of israel not just taking out a military installation. if Iran gets an atomic bomb and uses it there will not be much left to defend in israel. under that thinking why would israel wait to retalliate?

[Darius11 12]

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if Iran gets an atomic bomb and uses it there will not be much left to defend in israel. under that thinking why would israel wait to retalliate?

Because Iran would not use Nuclear weapons much like every other country that has them. If Iran would use Nuclear weapons on Israel or any one it would be destroyed simple as that.


If we can start to use words as a justification for violence and action it will be a very bloody world.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain