Belgian_Draft 0 #1 November 19, 2008 When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 733 #2 November 19, 2008 Given he never really said what he meant by "change", not sure what we expected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #3 November 19, 2008 You mean the Obama that called Harry Reid and told him to cut Liebermann some slack, despite the fact that Joe supported McCain and spoke somewhat harshly of Obama? I thought that seemed like a pretty classy move, and pretty unusual given the increasing malice in politics in my lifespan. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #4 November 19, 2008 QuoteYou mean the Obama that called Harry Reid and told him to cut Liebermann some slack, despite the fact that Joe supported McCain and spoke somewhat harshly of Obama? I thought that seemed like a pretty classy move, and pretty unusual given the increasing malice in politics in my lifespan. Blues, Dave What has that got to do with the OP?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #5 November 19, 2008 Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. nobody but Obama knows what he meant by change. he would have had to either show a trac record of voting in the senate or lay out specifics of his policy during the campain, of which he did niether. so anything that he does that doesn't duplicate Bush is a change in his eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #6 November 19, 2008 Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. Obama's "change" refers to a fundamental change in policy over the last eight years of neocon stupidity. I fully expect him to come through on that. Who he appoints to implement those changes in policy is immaterial. Actually, I see his appointments of experienced qualified people from the Clinton administration as change. It's a pleasant change from the current administrations policy which appears to be to nominate the least qualified partisan hack or personal friend to key positions. Cases in point; "You're doing a heck of job Brownie" - FEMA Harriet Myers - Supreme Court (Still laughing about this one) Bolton to the UN - Worst choice for this body ever Alberto Gonzalez- AG - Now indicted in TX Condoleeza Rice - Will go down as the worst Sec of State ever. And on and on and on....... For once, it's nice to see the important jobs going to the brightest people in the room, not the dumbest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 November 19, 2008 QuoteYou mean the Obama that called Harry Reid and told him to cut Liebermann some slack, despite the fact that Joe supported McCain and spoke somewhat harshly of Obama? I thought that seemed like a pretty classy move, and pretty unusual given the increasing malice in politics in my lifespan. It's time to cut Lieberman for good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #8 November 19, 2008 Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. Oh hey, look. Sean Hannity's opening line from his show yesterday. No, I'm not joking. The puppet show continues on the right. Edit: Just to note, I listen to all conservative talk, watch a lot of Fox News and read right leaning blogs. I may soon have a weekly column on a popular blog as well. I'm going to make sure the idiots are kept in line and prevent them from manipulating the populace once again._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #9 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. nobody but Obama knows what he meant by change. he would have had to either show a trac record of voting in the senate or lay out specifics of his policy during the campain, of which he did niether. so anything that he does that doesn't duplicate Bush is a change in his eyes. Actually, it is pretty easy to predict. I previously posted this voting analysis done by OpenCongress.org Obama voted with the Dem party 98% of the time. Obama voted with Clinton 96% of the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #10 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. nobody but Obama knows what he meant by change. he would have had to either show a trac record of voting in the senate or lay out specifics of his policy during the campain, of which he did niether. so anything that he does that doesn't duplicate Bush is a change in his eyes. Actually, it is pretty easy to predict. I previously posted this voting analysis done by OpenCongress.org Obama voted with the Dem party 98% of the time. Obama voted with Clinton 96% of the time. Considering what the last 8 years have been in the White House, that is literally change. But see, the right is upset it's not "center-right" governance because from their POV that's what the country is (even thou the country largely voted center-left). What you are missing out on here Bill is what FoxNews is telling the conservatives. Every moment they can, they are saying Obama is a failure and is "under the control of the radical left." Funny. The man isn't even in office yet. They should have left their spin for Jan 09. Now they just look like clowns. I've been meaning to work on a GOP talking point flow chart. They are rather predictable on every topic right now. They are preaching fear, using about 4 sets of stats out of context to give them just a small bit of credit, and they are trying to cause mass panic so 2 years from now people will vote GOP again._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #11 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. nobody but Obama knows what he meant by change. he would have had to either show a trac record of voting in the senate or lay out specifics of his policy during the campain, of which he did niether. so anything that he does that doesn't duplicate Bush is a change in his eyes. Actually, it is pretty easy to predict. I previously posted this voting analysis done by OpenCongress.org Obama voted with the Dem party 98% of the time. Obama voted with Clinton 96% of the time. Considering what the last 8 years have been in the White House, that is literally change. But see, the right is upset it's not "center-right" governance because from their POV that's what the country is (even thou the country largely voted center-left). What you are missing out on here Bill is what FoxNews is telling the conservatives. Every moment they can, they are saying Obama is a failure and is "under the control of the radical left." Funny. The man isn't even in office yet. They should have left their spin for Jan 09. Now they just look like clowns. I've been meaning to work on a GOP talking point flow chart. They are rather predictable on every topic right now. They are preaching fear, using about 4 sets of stats out of context to give them just a small bit of credit, and they are trying to cause mass panic so 2 years from now people will vote GOP again. I was just answering the original question. How closely does Obama mirror Hillary? Voting record? Pretty close. Basically, he may do the same things that Hillary was going to do, but couldn't because of one primary problem - Hillary would have lost. People who voted for Obama would not have switched to Hillary. They both follow the party line, that is their day job. Hillary is being considered for a Sec of State position now. This process should be interesting. If that fails, she will become the new Ted Kennedy. Teflon lightning rod for the Dems. "...they are trying to cause mass panic so 2 years from now people will vote GOP again." Scary concept that anyone would destroy the country to retain power. I don't think that it will work because in 2 years, the primary elements will change. The war in Iraq will wind down and the money will be spent on pork projects in the US. Infrastructure projects that will revive the construction industry away from housing. Nobody really cares about a lot except paying their bills if their bills aren't being paid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #12 November 19, 2008 Quote "...they are trying to cause mass panic so 2 years from now people will vote GOP again." Scary concept that anyone would destroy the country to retain power. I don't think that it will work because in 2 years, the primary elements will change. The war in Iraq will wind down and the money will be spent on pork projects in the US. Infrastructure projects that will revive the construction industry away from housing. Nobody really cares about a lot except paying their bills if their bills aren't being paid. Interesting, you think another Eisenhower style project will be part of Obama's plan? The future particulars may change 1.5 years out from now but the echoes of them will be there to make a platform out of them. They will still be relevant for the next 2 election cycles at the very least. And yes, the conservative talk radio is just as destructive and fear/anger inspiring as Palin was in her final weeks. They don't want to destroy the country but they want the fear of that happening to inspire votes back towards the right. It reminds me of what the KKK does to inspire fear in the ignorant so they can recruit more. You really should take some time to tune in to some of these popular conservative hosts. You will be disgusted by what they are doing._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #13 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. nobody but Obama knows what he meant by change. he would have had to either show a trac record of voting in the senate or lay out specifics of his policy during the campain, of which he did niether. so anything that he does that doesn't duplicate Bush is a change in his eyes. Actually, it is pretty easy to predict. I previously posted this voting analysis done by OpenCongress.org Obama voted with the Dem party 98% of the time. Obama voted with Clinton 96% of the time. it is not the votes he did make its the huge amount present votes he made that makes it imposible to understand his direction and motive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #14 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote "...they are trying to cause mass panic so 2 years from now people will vote GOP again." Scary concept that anyone would destroy the country to retain power. I don't think that it will work because in 2 years, the primary elements will change. The war in Iraq will wind down and the money will be spent on pork projects in the US. Infrastructure projects that will revive the construction industry away from housing. Nobody really cares about a lot except paying their bills if their bills aren't being paid. Interesting, you think another Eisenhower style project will be part of Obama's plan? (Remember - he is going on his Chicago experiences) The only specific that he gave on his poverty program was to try to replicate the program for the poor in Harlem. It' main effects provides medical care and child daycare for the poor. A bandaid that is needed, but not a longterm solution. He wants to replicate this program in 20 target cities. Another possible program is to provide vouchers to get people out of public housing and move them. Both programs provided short-term help, but not a long term fix. The problem is meaningful jobs and training. Money may be guided to inner city infrastructure rebuilding, but the details haven't come out yet. It's just talk until it is funded. That would provide the much needed jobs (current issue). The necessary training for those jobs will provide future stability (the real issue). Quote They don't want to destroy the country but they want the fear of that happening to inspire votes back towards the right. It reminds me of what the KKK does to inspire fear in the ignorant so they can recruit more. The theory is that anyone really cares what the KKK says anymore. Nobody cared 15 years ago. Besides, the Dems were doing their job for them. Remember the Clinton remarks during the Carolina and Miss elections? It was politics at its finest. Great technique. It was used like the lawyer that he was - Make a remark and then ask that the jury disregard it. Sure, but they don't. Clinton ran around reminding everyone that BO was black. Then, Hillary's campaign staff got the secondary media hit by denying that they meant that. "To all you people in Miss, we didn't really mean to remind you that BO is still black." Being the bad guy while claiming moral superiority. Perfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #15 November 19, 2008 Quote When Obama was promising change in Washington, I didn't think he meant changing back to a Clinton administration. Keep it up; you'll just lose the 2010 round of elections, too. Fine with us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #16 November 19, 2008 Quote The theory is that anyone really cares what the KKK says anymore. Nobody cared 15 years ago. Except for the inner south which seems to be about the same as it was in the 1800s. And this time you have people disguised as a sane voice for their party spreading the venom over 50,000 watt radio stations in every city around the country. There is a real concern for what they are doing and the damage it will cause._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #17 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuote The theory is that anyone really cares what the KKK says anymore. Nobody cared 15 years ago. Except for the inner south which seems to be about the same as it was in the 1800s. And this time you have people disguised as a sane voice for their party spreading the venom over 50,000 watt radio stations in every city around the country. There is a real concern for what they are doing and the damage it will cause. I don't listen to those stations, I only read the Bill Clinton remarks on the internet. I think they got a much larger distribution. As far as using racism in politics, his were the most widely heard remarks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #18 November 19, 2008 I was thinking the change would be from the last 16 years, not just eight. The last two presidents have focused too much on what is best for them, their party, and their "legacy" and not enough on what is best for the country as whole not just now but in the future.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 November 19, 2008 As seen on an elderly man's shirt a few days ago: QuoteI'll keep my money, I'll keep my guns and I'll keep my bible... you can keep the CHANGE! I thought it was hilarious!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #20 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuote The theory is that anyone really cares what the KKK says anymore. Nobody cared 15 years ago. Except for the inner south which seems to be about the same as it was in the 1800s. And this time you have people disguised as a sane voice for their party spreading the venom over 50,000 watt radio stations in every city around the country. There is a real concern for what they are doing and the damage it will cause. So Obama's appointment of numerous Clinton employees and Washington insiders is conservative radio's fault? It's not a conspiracy by Saun Hannity to expose choices like Biden, Emanuel, and possibly Hillary as the complete opposite of change. I feel like you're completely dodging the fact that Obama's promise of change is thus far represented by people who've been in Washington for 20 or 30 years. Just because the statement irritates me; do you live in the south or travel through there very often? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #21 November 19, 2008 If you can't figure out that the electorate was sick and tired of Bush/Cheney neocon politics to the extent of sweeping the GOP out of the White House, Senate and House, then it's not unexpected that you fail to understand the meaning of "change" in this month's election.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #22 November 19, 2008 Quote If you can't figure out that the electorate was sick and tired of Bush/Cheney neocon politics to the extent of sweeping the GOP out of the White House, Senate and House, then it's not unexpected that you fail to understand the meaning of "change" in this month's election. Oh, my poor tiny brain just can't understand what change means... Obama has said he may be looking to create a "team of rivals." But this stack-up of Clinton veterans in the Obama administration has already caused buzz that this may not be what some people were looking for when they voted for change. Buried in that Rasmussen poll was this nugget: "Despite the support for Clinton to be secretary of state, 70% of voters think Obama should reach out and appoint new people for his Cabinet rather than including more people who served in the Clinton administration." I find it hilarious, but not surprising, that you defend Obama's appointments of life-long Washington politicians as change. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #23 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote If you can't figure out that the electorate was sick and tired of Bush/Cheney neocon politics to the extent of sweeping the GOP out of the White House, Senate and House, then it's not unexpected that you fail to understand the meaning of "change" in this month's election. Oh, my poor tiny brain just can't understand what change means... . Apparently... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #24 November 19, 2008 QuoteApparently WOW! Now your down to 1 word zingers from 1 liners. You have talent!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #25 November 19, 2008 Quote If you can't figure out that the electorate was sick and tired of Bush/Cheney neocon politics to the extent of sweeping the GOP out of the White House, Senate and House, then it's not unexpected that you fail to understand the meaning of "change" in this month's election. When most people change their underwear they put on a clean pair, not just turn the dirty ones inside-out. The latter is the type of change Obama is bringing to Washington.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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