Leapinglizardto 0 #26 August 13, 2008 Quote Where do you feel it all came from? E-bay they have EVERYTHING !It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #27 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote Where do you feel it all came from? E-bay they have EVERYTHING ! Awesome! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #28 August 13, 2008 Quote But if you're wrong, you could have an eternity to go, "oops..." If there is a God, I would like to think he's the kind that wouldn't use FEAR as a reason to believe in him.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leapinglizardto 0 #29 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote But if you're wrong, you could have an eternity to go, "oops..." If there is a God, I would like to think he's the kind that wouldn't use FEAR as a reason to believe in him. Smack-Down engagedIt's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #30 August 13, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote*** The universe has just always been here. No magic. I really dont get why people struggle to accept that How is it you can believe matter is and has always been, but it's so hard to believe a higher power exists and always has? I tend to agree...there is no real beginning or end in the sense we understand. Space time is a continuos loop with no starting or ending point. In physics we can go back in time just like we go forward. Time is an illusion which we can manipulate simply by moving at faster speeds. If you look around anything and everything around us is in a continuos cycle....even life and death.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #31 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote But if you're wrong, you could have an eternity to go, "oops..." If there is a God, I would like to think he's the kind that wouldn't use FEAR as a reason to believe in him. Fear is typical BS used by organized religion to scare people into staying with a specific religion. Good for business. Why would this entity who is supposed to be all loving use fear and punishment? It makes it sound like God is a parent. Do you think God really cares if we go through the motions made up by men such as rituals and non-genuine repetetive prayers. If we are made like God then our purpose is to love unconditionally and to create.... God isnt out there....God is here. God is everything including us....we make up God like cells make up organs. We are devine......7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 0 #32 August 13, 2008 I don't think the big-bangers beleive the universe was always there - it began at a well-measured time point - the big bang. Prior to that? Is unknown. But invoking a god/creator doesn't solve the problem - just pushes it back one step (who created the creator?).. It is OK to not know something, there's no need to invent a spurious idea (god)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #33 August 13, 2008 Something cannot come out of nothing, and by nothing, as I was telling Bill, I mean no empty space, no dark, no potential energy, no NOTHING. Here is a thought. Think about how our vision works. We take in data though the eyes, data is transmitted down the optical nerve to the part of the brain that decodes it via three stages. That data is first structured into vertical and horizontal lines. Second stage is where color and definition is added. In the third stage we assign memory and emotion to what we see. All of this happens inside your brain. All reality is created inside of you, not outside. You brain is never exposed to the outside world. Other senses work in a similar fashion. Imagine if your brain is sitting in a jar and USB chord is plugged directly into the part of the brain which decodes data. We are sent sensory information such as pictures and we make visuals out of them. We think we really see something, but in reality all these pictures are simply binary code…ones and zeros. For all we know we are a computer simulation 7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #34 August 13, 2008 Quote It is OK to not know something This is the part I wish more people understood, religion being but one topic to which it is applicable. If more people were willing to admit, "I don't know", this forum would get 80% fewer posts. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #35 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote It is OK to not know something This is the part I wish more people understood, religion being but one topic to which it is applicable. If more people were willing to admit, "I don't know", this forum would get 80% fewer posts. Blues, Dave And I was under the impression we were all experts in everything....we are god :)7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #36 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote And I was under the impression we were all experts in everything....we are god :) We are ALL experts in everything (everything we know at least)but collectively "synergisticly" we do know everythingYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #37 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote Quote And I was under the impression we were all experts in everything....we are god :) We are ALL experts in everything (everything we know at least)but collectively "synergisticly" we do know everything You just hit something. Collectively we are stronger. Organized religion promotes segregation which prevents humanity from reaching its ultimate strength, Spirituality is the key my friend to unitig all. Why? Because it rids individuals of egos and the idea of self in a materialistic reality. It promotes the idea of Oneness. We are a collective body of humans in this thing together, If humanity has a purpose then unity has to be it. I stand by that,.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #38 August 13, 2008 QuoteIf humanity has a purpose then unity has to be it. Humanity HAD one purpose, to pass down DNA, but with 6.8 billion people on the planet, that's not really all that important right now.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #39 August 13, 2008 QuoteQuoteIf humanity has a purpose then unity has to be it. Humanity HAD one purpose, to pass down DNA, but with 6.8 billion people on the planet, that's not really all that important right now. So the new purpose is to get the code off the rock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #40 August 13, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf humanity has a purpose then unity has to be it. Humanity HAD one purpose, to pass down DNA, but with 6.8 billion people on the planet, that's not really all that important right now. So the new purpose is to get the code off the rock. I'm pretty sure that's a fair distance into the future. In the interim, we could just slow down on the thriving thing and focus more on the prosper. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #41 August 13, 2008 QuoteOf the many people in this world, those that believe in a higher power feel this world was created. Others have the big bang theory, as well as many more thoughts and theories. Regardless of your faith or belief, you probably have some idea as to how it all began. Really? I'm an agnostic; and I freely admit that I have NO FREAKIN' IDEA as to how it all began. Moreover, I think that anyone who claims to "know" (usually through religious faith) how it all began is full of shit, or does not know how to recognize their own inability to truly "know" such a thing. QuoteScience has proven long ago that matter cannot be created, nor destroyed. It can be broken apart into the smallest pieces of matter: protons, neutrons and electrons, but it never goes away. Expect to get replies in droves that point out that "science does not PROVE ANYTHING." And they're pretty much right. So your post actually underscores the idea that believers, who eschew science in favor of faith, really don't even understand science. QuoteWhere do you feel it all came from? I have no idea (as I said earlier). But I am loathe to go crediting a "higher power" of whom I have seen neither proof nor even evidence, and whose lore on its face seems intrinsically preposterous to me. And I would throw the same question back at the believers: what created your creator? I mean, if people say that the universe could not "always" have been here, because it needed to be created, why is it valid to say that your "God" was always here and did not need to be created?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #42 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote Science has proven long ago that matter cannot be created, nor destroyed. It can be broken apart into the smallest pieces of matter: protons, neutrons and electrons, but it never goes away. You are ignoring the fact matter can be converted into energy. Yeah, well, he ignored that science does not "prove"; I'm waiting to see what he'll come up with to make the Hat Trick. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #43 August 13, 2008 QuoteQuoteIf humanity has a purpose then unity has to be it. Humanity HAD one purpose, to pass down DNA, but with 6.8 billion people on the planet, that's not really all that important right now. That has nothing what-so ever to do with HUMANITY,that is the biological imperative for ALL LIVING THINGSYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #44 August 13, 2008 QuoteExpect to get replies in droves that point out that "science does not PROVE ANYTHING." And they're pretty much right. So your post actually underscores the idea that believers, who eschew science in favor of faith, really don't even understand science. One would have to define "proof", and I think mathematics might be a good place to start. In any case, lonstanding scientific theories are a lot more substantiated than those that the various religions would have us accept without supporting evidence. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #45 August 13, 2008 QuoteYou call it child foolishness, but say it's a good question to ask where it all comes from. I don't understand. See, this is the kind of thing that makes me and a whole bunch of other people get very frustrated (and eventually even contemptuous) of "believers" -- right at the outset of a discussion, they display an inability (or is it an unwillingness?) to follow even the most basic logical progressions. He said that the question of "where did it all come from?" is a good one, and then he said that the ANSWERS PROVIDED BY RELIGIOUS MYTH are what is "childish foolishness." I ask in all candor and honesty, if you could not follow that (or would not), how can this become a productive, insightful discussion? I don't ask that in order to be obnoxious or insulting, and I'm sorry if it might come across that way; I truly want to know. Because we should not have to spend the discussion explaining away the misunderstandings you arrive at when we state our viewpoints. That's wasted time and energy. And eventually the discussion will end with the nonbelievers giving up and walking away, causing you the impression that you've "won" because they can't abide having to do the, "OK, here it is again for the umpteenth time, that's not what I said..." thing.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #46 August 13, 2008 Quote Needing a beginning and end to something as infinite as the universe is the sort of limited capacity for understanding that starts all the religious Dogma to being with. True. But why do you say "as infinite as"? Are there degrees of "infinite"? Can one thing be "infinite," but not "AS infinite" as some other thing? Can my love of prime rib be infinite, but not AS infinite as someone else's love of lobster tails? And how can you state that the universe is "infinite"? We don't know that, we just suspect it. It's not provable, at any rate. At what point do you stop pushing to the outer "edge" of it and start heading back home saying, "Well, we went out as far as we need to go to satisfy ourselves that there's no end"? What if the end you sought was just a mile farther out? Besides all that, I think that the original poster said "MATTER" cannot be created or destroyed, but what I always heard was the same phrase, but the thing that could not be created or destroyed was "ENERGY." Did this whole discussion get predicated on a misallegation, a misquote?? Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #47 August 13, 2008 QuoteHow is it you can believe matter is and has always been, but it's so hard to believe a higher power exists and always has? This is hilarious. You somehow don't realize that the same exact challenge can be made about the god you believe in, and when atheists/agnostics make that challenge, believers dismiss it. Now you're using it?! Why can you sit back and say that God has always existed, but we can't claim equally that there's no God, and there was no necessity for one to create the universe because the universe has always existed?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #48 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote *** The universe has just always been here. No magic. I really dont get why people struggle to accept that How is it you can believe matter is and has always been, but it's so hard to believe a higher power exists and always has? Empirical evidence, and scientific observation, not all things are explained YET by science but that in noway means that they wont be at some time in the Future. I have no time for a "GOD OF THE GAPS" theory But if you're wrong, you could have an eternity to go, "oops..." So really, then, you don't have to believe in God to believe in God; you might just be a person who consider himself the smarter bettor. Somehow, I think that if a person who really is not convinced to have faith in God goes around saying he's a believer, when the end of times comes, any God worth calling God is not gonna be fooled. Same goes for the deathbed conversions, which are essentially not worth the breath they're uttered on. Quote That brings up another good question... How many people believe in some kind of God "just in case." Probably quite a few, because they don't want to be someone that says, "there's no God," and then die and go, "ahhh, shit!" Funny, my reply at top was made before I even read this part. (a bad habit of mine) But here you are admitting that people hedge their bets to try not to be caught out by God when they croak. I doubt God falls for that. Any God who falls for that is pretty damned unworthy of the position.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #49 August 13, 2008 Quote I've been pretty sure of my impending death on a few occasions, and religion/god was the furthest thing from my mind. Embarassment, regret, and guilt over the stupid decisions I'd made to put myself in those positions were front and center. Blues, Dave I've had lots of dreams in which I died, and knew I was about to die ahead of time (crashing plane, nuke going off, gunshot to the head, etc. -- even snakebite a few times). In most of those dreams, I spend my last few moments trying to prepare my mind for some quantum jump to some other state of being (an afterlife? a merging with the cosmos? an existence as an ethereal being, like a ghost?) I have made up my mind to try to not preoccupy myself with any fear or regret as I die. If there's a higher power, and I'm about to be judged (as a guy who lived life as a non-believer), so be it. I guess I'll have to make my case before a God who's pissed off at me. But if there's NOTHINGNESS right beyond the edge of life, what purpose is there to feeling embarrassment or regret or guilt? I won't even be worried about what those I leave behind might think when they go rummaging through my personal effects later on and go, "He was into that?! If you worry about that stuff, you might as well spend all of your waking hours worrying, and then get shitty sleep while worrying, too -- because death can claim you on any given day.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #50 August 13, 2008 Quote If there is a God, I would like to think he's the kind that wouldn't use FEAR as a reason to believe in him. Oooh, sick burn!Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
