MikeForsythe 0 #26 July 27, 2008 Quote Sure it can. Free can be (and typically is) a subset of affordable. Please tell me that was not the best contributory response that you could come up with. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #27 July 27, 2008 Quote***]Then explain how I have great health care and insurance and I am not rich? I had a total hip replacement last year and my total out of pocket cost was about $300USD including physical therapy and medications. Rich is a subjective term, you are most certainly NOT poor. Poor people do not typically own ocean going vessels. As to the cost of your medical procedure, might it just have something to do with the medical insurance cover you have (which no doubt is not cheap) and/or being ex military?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #28 July 27, 2008 QuoteRich is a subjective term, you are most certainly NOT poor. Poor people do not typically own ocean going vessels. As to the cost of your medical procedure, might it just have something to do with the medical insurance cover you have (which no doubt is not cheap) and/or being ex militaryNo, I am not poor or rich, just somewhere in between. Yes, I have insurance that is provided to me at no direct cost. I was never in the military so that does not apply. In my case, rich or poor has nothing to do with health care as it is provided to all employees of the company I work for.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #29 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteRich is a subjective term, you are most certainly NOT poor. Poor people do not typically own ocean going vessels. As to the cost of your medical procedure, might it just have something to do with the medical insurance cover you have (which no doubt is not cheap) and/or being ex militaryNo, I am not poor or rich, just somewhere in between. Yes, I have insurance that is provided to me at no direct cost. I was never in the military so that does not apply. In my case, rich or poor has nothing to do with health care as it is provided to all employees of the company I work for. So what was the point of your previous post, you are in a privileged position and therfore not part of the general population that this thread is pointed at.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #30 July 27, 2008 Quote So what was the point of your previous post, you are in a privileged position and therfore not part of the general population that this thread is pointed at. Yes I am in the general population as I fit into the average or middle class category. I am not in the rich or privileged category. Are you now telling me what social class I am in, in my country? I work shift work for an electric utility company and when you saw me at zhills I was driving my 2000 Checy S-10 pickup with 125,000 miles on it. That may be rich or priviledged where you come from but it is not here in the US.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #31 July 27, 2008 Quote Quote So what was the point of your previous post, you are in a privileged position and therfore not part of the general population that this thread is pointed at. Yes I am in the general population as I fit into the average or middle class category. I am not in the rich or privileged category. Are you now telling me what social class I am in, in my country? I work shift work for an electric utility company and when you saw me at zhills I was driving my 2000 Checy S-10 pickup with 125,000 miles on it. That may be rich or priviledged where you come from but it is not here in the US. Mike your literacy level is higher than you are portraying. you ARE in a privileged category simply by virtue that you apparently have a VERY comprehensive medical coverage. So as it relates to THIS topic you are NOT part of the Gen Pop that might require socialised medical aide.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #32 July 27, 2008 QuoteThat's exactly what it is. The US military is a socialist structure. Socialism is an economic structure, a way of a country doing buisness. The military is, if anything a Communist structure economically speaking. Politically, it's a Totalitarian structure. It in itself can't even be compared to any of those anyway because it exists because its money is supplied by the result of the taxes of a Capitalistic economy. The military can't be compared as a social aspect of the U. S. because it is not a Government controlled aspect of civillian enterprise. It's a government controlled aspect of a piece of the government._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #33 July 27, 2008 QuoteMikey your literacy level is higher than you are portraying. you ARE in a privileged category simply by virtue that you apparently have a VERY comprehensive medical coverage. So as it relates to THIS topic you are NOT part of the Gen Pop that might require socialised medical aide. Wayney, again you do not understand. If you do not understand the system we have here in our country maybe you should not be acting as though you are an expert on it. The company I work for has 15,000+ employees. The janitors have the same medical insurance coverage as the managers. The original poster that I responded to stated that only the rich have good medical coverage here. Clearly if a janitor or entry level person has quality medical insurance available to them at little or no cost the statement is not valid. Insurance in the US has a lot more to do with who you work for than what your social status is. And by the way, literacy has nothing to do with medical coverage.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #34 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems good healthcare is a luxury for the rich rather than aceesable to all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then explain how I have great health care and insurance OK the 2 bolded portions are what I am referring to, are you saying the everyone in the USofA has access to the level of medical accessibility that you (or your janitor) receives and it is ACCESSIBLE TO ALL? If not then you ARE INDEED in a privileged position.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #35 July 27, 2008 Mike, I also have a very nice medical insurance paid by my company, but you will agree with me that insurance benefits is not something that it is offered in all companies or even to all the employees in the same company. For those is the social healthcare. Just for the record i have both Social and Insurance medical health and i cannot honesly say which is better (or worse). They both give pretty much the same return fo your money although tipically the disadvantages of one of them is the advantages of the other and viceversa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #36 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuotePublic education is free K-12 here in the USA So it is, wouldn't you rather have the govornment invest in your health, rather than paying billions so a few astronauts riding exercycles in space can stay on a payroll? NO!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #37 July 27, 2008 OK. I'm gonna make this one post and then run, not because I don't want to engage in this discussion, rather this week is going to be BUSY (after I fully wake up) until complete this very important task, I need to focus on completing that, not debating in SC. But I want to explain that health care is NOT just for the "privileged" here in America. But it might be inconvenient if you don't have the perfect insurance plan. But... lets say (using examples that I KNOW), a young woman gets pregnant and she might be working as a waitress and he, in this current market, just lost his job. But they don't have much, and especially don't have insurance. What they, or she, actually, needs to do is check into Medicaid. But... it can be tricky and it would help to know the HOW's of qualifying But... that is QUITE a hassle. But maybe she has a friend in a similar situation and can ask her "Where do I start?" and that friend can (and often does) help get her to a caseworker. But my point is that health care IS available for her. OK, so you then argue that she IS married and one of the two of them has a good income (but no insurance benefits in the plan). Then what? Can't qualify for medicaid and doesn't WANT to buy health insurance. Still options out there. The counties offer health departments (Johnson County Health Depatment, Leavenworth County Health Department, Jackson County Health Department, ect) that are then funneled into the main teaching hospitals in the city, such as KU or Truman. But sometimes some people dont WANT to go to a teaching facility. (maybe they've watched one too many episodes of House, or maybe they just don't want all those students and residents and then the attendings to be bugging them ALL the time!) Or... as too many do, they choose to go without. Then show up on the hospital door at term and become what we tend to refer to as a "dew drop." She will get a bill from the hospital and from the doctor and from anesthesia (if she got an epidural or a c-section)... but she WILL NOT be refused care if she is in labor even if she doesn't have insurance. But... this is NOT a good idea. We (the doctors) don't know if she's a gestational diabetic - cuz she never did the testing at 28w.) We have no firm grasp on her gestational age or the babies estimated weight (other than physical exam, but that can be off by as much 3 weeks at term). What about any infections (chlamydia or herpes) that she hasn't been treated for? Lots of issues with dew drops. (thats why some of the docs - and I WAY DISAGREE with this - withhold epidurals for dew drops as a way to encourage them to go to Truman or KU) As I stated six months ago here: QuoteWe need to convey to the people a sense that THEY are responsible for THEIR HEALTH. The government can subsidize and provide . . . but until the people choose to take the responsibility to make those appointments and wait for the visits (yes, you do tend to wait longer in the county hospitals. . . but suck it up and wait), we will continue to see studies like those you referenced. Why? Because there is likely some population bias. The people with insurance value and prioritize their health. The devote time AND/OR money to routine screening. Those that present with advanced stage cancers haven't placed their health that high on the list. Do they deserve to? Hell yes. But other issues get in the way (financial: 3-4 children that she had to provide for, paying rent, life in general. Time: getting a sitter while she getting her annual exam, taking time off of her low income job, travel to and from the clinic issues) But.... those with the true desire to ensure their health make it to the doctors (trust me, I see medicaid patients. . . some arrange swapping babysitting with a friend so that one comes at this time while she's watching the children and then the other comes the next time. Not that my clinic doesn't allow children, but they do have to be chaperoned and do you really want your 3 children in the room with you while getting a pap?!) - but did you also notice Quote The study by researchers with the American Cancer Society also found that blacks had a higher risk of late diagnosis, even after accounting for their disproportionately high rates of being uninsured and underinsured. The study’s authors speculated that the disparity might be caused by a lack of health literacy and an inadequate supply of providers in minority communities. THIS population is at higher risk just based on population alone. Not just whether they had insurance or not. They speculate health literacy, supply. I would include: genetics, coping mechanisms, stress (see here) personal beliefs of healthcare. Maybe earlier in school we need to focus on HEALTH. True health (not just that silly class that everyone blows off in 9th grade): back to basics - healthy diet, weight restriction, recommended health maintenance. I don't know what the REAL answer is but I believe that we need to change the mindset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #38 July 27, 2008 You frame the topic as if some can not get health care if they need it. Consider the following (which was posted somewhere else) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI If they can get it, who cant?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #39 July 27, 2008 QuoteHow much does a Satellite Communication Systems Operator - Maintainer or an Information Systems Operator - Analyst make compared to a Laundry and Shower Specialist or a Food Service Specialist, all with a rank of Specialist and with 30 months time in service? Do you think their income would compare in a similar manner in a capitalist economy? Ah...the command condition/rank structure you cite debunks your point. I understand what you're saying, but in a socialist system look at the federal minimum wage or certain union environments as a means of comparison. QuoteSocialism is an economic system, not a government system. It goes fine with a command structure, a monarchy/dictatorship or democracy/polity, just as capitalism can be implemented with any of them. That's not an absolute. There are economic and political models for socialism each with subjective views of pros and cons.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #40 July 27, 2008 Then you have Administrators with no real medical background or understanding deciding what patients need. That's already happening with managed care as it is. On a side note, as I'm setting up my practice, it makes me really happy to be able to provide a great benefits backage to my employees that includes group health coverage. :) I'll be the only physician in town doing it though. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #41 July 27, 2008 Quote I am confused, is it free or affordable? It can't be both. Also, it is not free, it is paid in some way either by taxes or fees of some type. You are right it is paid by a type of Tax by NZ residents, If you for example come to New Zealand on a holiday and Hook yourself in skydiving/paragliding or any activity for that matter, and your bone pops out of your skin, you will be airlifted by helecopter to the closest hospital if you are not in a city already and operated on straight away you will saty in a comfortable hospital and cared for until you are ready to leave, you will pay?......... Nothing. You will be billed........ Nothing. You will be able to do this again in the future and the same rules will apply. So for you, it is free. So you don't have to get supersized travel insurance to cover skydiving or any other so called risky activity when coming to NZ. Although overseen by the govornment, all this is handled by a corporation. The Accident Compensation Corporation of New Zealand."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #42 July 27, 2008 We already discussed this six months ago... I don't have time right now to correct you again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #43 July 27, 2008 QuoteI think the biggest hinderence to the USofA being converted to socialised health is the cost, Well, that and the loss of income by insurance companies and firm opposition by those in the medical profession who fear loss of profit and status. They have most of the pie and they want to keep it.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #44 July 27, 2008 Quote We already discussed this six months ago... I don't have time right now to correct you again. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #45 July 27, 2008 QuoteWe already discussed this six months ago... I don't have time right now to correct you again. BS you are not charged as a tourist to New Zealand if you injure yourself period. It is covered by ACC which is paid for by NZ'ers. Sorry you can't grasp that but it is true, Quotehttp://www.acc.co.nz/claims-and-care/whos-covered/WIM2_059655?ssSourceNodeId=8479&ssSourceSiteId=1494 You simly refused to believe."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #46 July 27, 2008 OK, dude. ONE MORE TIME (then I have to ignore you and work on my caselist... regardless of what is posted next) QuoteNon-New Zealand residents Health services are funded for New Zealand residents. People who are not permanent residents can be charged for their healthcare. Nobody can be refused emergency care because they cannot pay, although they may be sent a bill later. Treatment after an accident is free or heavily subsidised for all people whether or not they are New Zealand residents. If you have been granted refugee status, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. If you have been granted a temporary permit while your application for refugee status is processed and you intend to remain in New Zealand for two years or more, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. source You are NOT able to guarantee me of anything if your own gov't website can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #47 July 27, 2008 Quote Then you have Administrators with no real medical background or understanding deciding what patients need. That's already happening with managed care as it is. On the flip side of that, asking your doctor / nurse about what treatment you need runs you into the same issues as asking your mechanic what kind of work needs to be done on your car. Doctors & nurses face incentives to recommend care above and beyond what is appropriate because it means more pay & prestige for them. Case in point, extreme measures for the terminally ill are famously overprescribed in the US resulting in significant expense at little patient benefit. Rising incidence of C-sections instead of vaginal delivery, etc. In terms of optimizing cost/benefit we're better off not putting decisions in the hands of doctors.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #48 July 27, 2008 Quote OK, dude. ONE MORE TIME (then I have to ignore you and work on my caselist... regardless of what is posted next) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Non-New Zealand residents Health services are funded for New Zealand residents. People who are not permanent residents can be charged for their healthcare. Nobody can be refused emergency care because they cannot pay, although they may be sent a bill later. Treatment after an accident is free or heavily subsidised for all people whether or not they are New Zealand residents. If you have been granted refugee status, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. If you have been granted a temporary permit while your application for refugee status is processed and you intend to remain in New Zealand for two years or more, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You Ignore the word Free there, heavily subsidised means you may have to pay for some (subsidised) pain killers once you leave the hospital. You will not be charged for any treatment made in the hospital. I have first hand experience with this, do you? How do you suggest that is bad."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #49 July 27, 2008 maybe not OZ but closer to the USA http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_07mar2006_e http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2753 http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18276 waiting 93 days for something as simple as a MRI, to me that is unacceptable. no thanks! you can have your "free" health care. I like being able to pick a doctor. Let me ask you somehing. If your pay was cut by 30% or more by the gov't would you do as much or as good? Something to think about...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #50 July 27, 2008 In terms of optimizing cost/benefit we're better off not putting decisions in the hands of doctors. Depends on the physician. Good reason to know about your doctor(s). I'm keenly aware of the practices of the physicians whom I use.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Botellines 0 #35 July 27, 2008 Mike, I also have a very nice medical insurance paid by my company, but you will agree with me that insurance benefits is not something that it is offered in all companies or even to all the employees in the same company. For those is the social healthcare. Just for the record i have both Social and Insurance medical health and i cannot honesly say which is better (or worse). They both give pretty much the same return fo your money although tipically the disadvantages of one of them is the advantages of the other and viceversa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #36 July 27, 2008 QuoteQuotePublic education is free K-12 here in the USA So it is, wouldn't you rather have the govornment invest in your health, rather than paying billions so a few astronauts riding exercycles in space can stay on a payroll? NO!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #37 July 27, 2008 OK. I'm gonna make this one post and then run, not because I don't want to engage in this discussion, rather this week is going to be BUSY (after I fully wake up) until complete this very important task, I need to focus on completing that, not debating in SC. But I want to explain that health care is NOT just for the "privileged" here in America. But it might be inconvenient if you don't have the perfect insurance plan. But... lets say (using examples that I KNOW), a young woman gets pregnant and she might be working as a waitress and he, in this current market, just lost his job. But they don't have much, and especially don't have insurance. What they, or she, actually, needs to do is check into Medicaid. But... it can be tricky and it would help to know the HOW's of qualifying But... that is QUITE a hassle. But maybe she has a friend in a similar situation and can ask her "Where do I start?" and that friend can (and often does) help get her to a caseworker. But my point is that health care IS available for her. OK, so you then argue that she IS married and one of the two of them has a good income (but no insurance benefits in the plan). Then what? Can't qualify for medicaid and doesn't WANT to buy health insurance. Still options out there. The counties offer health departments (Johnson County Health Depatment, Leavenworth County Health Department, Jackson County Health Department, ect) that are then funneled into the main teaching hospitals in the city, such as KU or Truman. But sometimes some people dont WANT to go to a teaching facility. (maybe they've watched one too many episodes of House, or maybe they just don't want all those students and residents and then the attendings to be bugging them ALL the time!) Or... as too many do, they choose to go without. Then show up on the hospital door at term and become what we tend to refer to as a "dew drop." She will get a bill from the hospital and from the doctor and from anesthesia (if she got an epidural or a c-section)... but she WILL NOT be refused care if she is in labor even if she doesn't have insurance. But... this is NOT a good idea. We (the doctors) don't know if she's a gestational diabetic - cuz she never did the testing at 28w.) We have no firm grasp on her gestational age or the babies estimated weight (other than physical exam, but that can be off by as much 3 weeks at term). What about any infections (chlamydia or herpes) that she hasn't been treated for? Lots of issues with dew drops. (thats why some of the docs - and I WAY DISAGREE with this - withhold epidurals for dew drops as a way to encourage them to go to Truman or KU) As I stated six months ago here: QuoteWe need to convey to the people a sense that THEY are responsible for THEIR HEALTH. The government can subsidize and provide . . . but until the people choose to take the responsibility to make those appointments and wait for the visits (yes, you do tend to wait longer in the county hospitals. . . but suck it up and wait), we will continue to see studies like those you referenced. Why? Because there is likely some population bias. The people with insurance value and prioritize their health. The devote time AND/OR money to routine screening. Those that present with advanced stage cancers haven't placed their health that high on the list. Do they deserve to? Hell yes. But other issues get in the way (financial: 3-4 children that she had to provide for, paying rent, life in general. Time: getting a sitter while she getting her annual exam, taking time off of her low income job, travel to and from the clinic issues) But.... those with the true desire to ensure their health make it to the doctors (trust me, I see medicaid patients. . . some arrange swapping babysitting with a friend so that one comes at this time while she's watching the children and then the other comes the next time. Not that my clinic doesn't allow children, but they do have to be chaperoned and do you really want your 3 children in the room with you while getting a pap?!) - but did you also notice Quote The study by researchers with the American Cancer Society also found that blacks had a higher risk of late diagnosis, even after accounting for their disproportionately high rates of being uninsured and underinsured. The study’s authors speculated that the disparity might be caused by a lack of health literacy and an inadequate supply of providers in minority communities. THIS population is at higher risk just based on population alone. Not just whether they had insurance or not. They speculate health literacy, supply. I would include: genetics, coping mechanisms, stress (see here) personal beliefs of healthcare. Maybe earlier in school we need to focus on HEALTH. True health (not just that silly class that everyone blows off in 9th grade): back to basics - healthy diet, weight restriction, recommended health maintenance. I don't know what the REAL answer is but I believe that we need to change the mindset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #38 July 27, 2008 You frame the topic as if some can not get health care if they need it. Consider the following (which was posted somewhere else) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI If they can get it, who cant?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #39 July 27, 2008 QuoteHow much does a Satellite Communication Systems Operator - Maintainer or an Information Systems Operator - Analyst make compared to a Laundry and Shower Specialist or a Food Service Specialist, all with a rank of Specialist and with 30 months time in service? Do you think their income would compare in a similar manner in a capitalist economy? Ah...the command condition/rank structure you cite debunks your point. I understand what you're saying, but in a socialist system look at the federal minimum wage or certain union environments as a means of comparison. QuoteSocialism is an economic system, not a government system. It goes fine with a command structure, a monarchy/dictatorship or democracy/polity, just as capitalism can be implemented with any of them. That's not an absolute. There are economic and political models for socialism each with subjective views of pros and cons.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #40 July 27, 2008 Then you have Administrators with no real medical background or understanding deciding what patients need. That's already happening with managed care as it is. On a side note, as I'm setting up my practice, it makes me really happy to be able to provide a great benefits backage to my employees that includes group health coverage. :) I'll be the only physician in town doing it though. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #41 July 27, 2008 Quote I am confused, is it free or affordable? It can't be both. Also, it is not free, it is paid in some way either by taxes or fees of some type. You are right it is paid by a type of Tax by NZ residents, If you for example come to New Zealand on a holiday and Hook yourself in skydiving/paragliding or any activity for that matter, and your bone pops out of your skin, you will be airlifted by helecopter to the closest hospital if you are not in a city already and operated on straight away you will saty in a comfortable hospital and cared for until you are ready to leave, you will pay?......... Nothing. You will be billed........ Nothing. You will be able to do this again in the future and the same rules will apply. So for you, it is free. So you don't have to get supersized travel insurance to cover skydiving or any other so called risky activity when coming to NZ. Although overseen by the govornment, all this is handled by a corporation. The Accident Compensation Corporation of New Zealand."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #42 July 27, 2008 We already discussed this six months ago... I don't have time right now to correct you again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #43 July 27, 2008 QuoteI think the biggest hinderence to the USofA being converted to socialised health is the cost, Well, that and the loss of income by insurance companies and firm opposition by those in the medical profession who fear loss of profit and status. They have most of the pie and they want to keep it.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #44 July 27, 2008 Quote We already discussed this six months ago... I don't have time right now to correct you again. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #45 July 27, 2008 QuoteWe already discussed this six months ago... I don't have time right now to correct you again. BS you are not charged as a tourist to New Zealand if you injure yourself period. It is covered by ACC which is paid for by NZ'ers. Sorry you can't grasp that but it is true, Quotehttp://www.acc.co.nz/claims-and-care/whos-covered/WIM2_059655?ssSourceNodeId=8479&ssSourceSiteId=1494 You simly refused to believe."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #46 July 27, 2008 OK, dude. ONE MORE TIME (then I have to ignore you and work on my caselist... regardless of what is posted next) QuoteNon-New Zealand residents Health services are funded for New Zealand residents. People who are not permanent residents can be charged for their healthcare. Nobody can be refused emergency care because they cannot pay, although they may be sent a bill later. Treatment after an accident is free or heavily subsidised for all people whether or not they are New Zealand residents. If you have been granted refugee status, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. If you have been granted a temporary permit while your application for refugee status is processed and you intend to remain in New Zealand for two years or more, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. source You are NOT able to guarantee me of anything if your own gov't website can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #47 July 27, 2008 Quote Then you have Administrators with no real medical background or understanding deciding what patients need. That's already happening with managed care as it is. On the flip side of that, asking your doctor / nurse about what treatment you need runs you into the same issues as asking your mechanic what kind of work needs to be done on your car. Doctors & nurses face incentives to recommend care above and beyond what is appropriate because it means more pay & prestige for them. Case in point, extreme measures for the terminally ill are famously overprescribed in the US resulting in significant expense at little patient benefit. Rising incidence of C-sections instead of vaginal delivery, etc. In terms of optimizing cost/benefit we're better off not putting decisions in the hands of doctors.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #48 July 27, 2008 Quote OK, dude. ONE MORE TIME (then I have to ignore you and work on my caselist... regardless of what is posted next) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Non-New Zealand residents Health services are funded for New Zealand residents. People who are not permanent residents can be charged for their healthcare. Nobody can be refused emergency care because they cannot pay, although they may be sent a bill later. Treatment after an accident is free or heavily subsidised for all people whether or not they are New Zealand residents. If you have been granted refugee status, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. If you have been granted a temporary permit while your application for refugee status is processed and you intend to remain in New Zealand for two years or more, you have the same rights as New Zealand residents. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You Ignore the word Free there, heavily subsidised means you may have to pay for some (subsidised) pain killers once you leave the hospital. You will not be charged for any treatment made in the hospital. I have first hand experience with this, do you? How do you suggest that is bad."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #49 July 27, 2008 maybe not OZ but closer to the USA http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_07mar2006_e http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2753 http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18276 waiting 93 days for something as simple as a MRI, to me that is unacceptable. no thanks! you can have your "free" health care. I like being able to pick a doctor. Let me ask you somehing. If your pay was cut by 30% or more by the gov't would you do as much or as good? Something to think about...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #50 July 27, 2008 In terms of optimizing cost/benefit we're better off not putting decisions in the hands of doctors. Depends on the physician. Good reason to know about your doctor(s). I'm keenly aware of the practices of the physicians whom I use.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
