Way to go, WA Teacher's Unions!

[TheAnvil 0]

Hot DAMN, but do they care about math/science, eh?

Clicky

I feel sorry for those teachers...especially the math and science ones..they must LOVE their union right now. Of course, it's not like they have a CHOICE if they want to teach in many areas/schools...aren't most teacher's unions supporting purportedly pro-choice candidates? Oh! It's only ONE choice...I see...

Teacher's unions are one of the major impediments in improving education in our country.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[lawrocket 3]

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And while the Washington union is spurning millions of dollars in grant money, it's also suing the state for the alleged inadequate funding of public schools. Hmmm. Could it be that union chiefs care more about protecting their monopoly than what students are learning?

Yes. It's about power.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Whiskeyboi 0]

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Hot DAMN, but do they care about math/science, eh?

Clicky

I feel sorry for those teachers...especially the math and science ones..they must LOVE their union right now. Of course, it's not like they have a CHOICE if they want to teach in many areas/schools...aren't most teacher's unions supporting purportedly pro-choice candidates? Oh! It's only ONE choice...I see...

Teacher's unions are one of the major impediments in improving education in our country.

Funny thing is, the Dept. of Ed. started offering a sizable grant for juniors and seniors majoring in certain areas - math and science included. Sort of George Bush's plan to stimulate the educational economy. http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/SmartGrants.jsp

Political commentary aside, they're practically BEGGING kids to major in these programs.

[Royd 0]

In the socialist's mind, mediocrity is celebrated, and individual success is punished.

They just threw the money right back into the face of one of the most successful men in the world.

OTOH, if they could have forced Bill Gates to give up that money, they'd have gladly taken it.

[skymiles 3]

Unions - when good ideas go bad.

[idrankwhat 0]

I had to go find a news article to see how it compared to the opinion piece. The spokesman for the WEA stated that outside organizations aren't allowed to set up a new system to pay teachers. When you put it that way, I think he has a point.
Should Richard Mellon Scaife/George Soros or Rev. Parsley/Osama bin Laden be allowed to directly fund teacher programs that cater to their topics of interest?
Seems to me that there should be better way than direct payments.

[mnealtx 0]

God forbid the teachers should get what amounts to a performance bonus without the union getting their cut...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

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God forbid the teachers should get what amounts to a performance bonus without the union getting their cut...

So you wouldn't have an problem with Soros paying teachers personally?

[mnealtx 0]

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God forbid the teachers should get what amounts to a performance bonus without the union getting their cut...

So you wouldn't have an problem with Soros paying teachers personally?

Funny, I thought the article was about a foundation grant offering bonuses... not Bill Gates visiting schools to pass out checks, silly me.

In regards to Soros... *shrug* doesn't he already do that with the news organizations?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

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Funny, I thought the article was about a foundation grant offering bonuses...

It is. And the WEA's rep says that foundations, organizations, people, aren't allowed to pay teachers directly. I think they should be able to figure out a way to achieve the intended goals but I think that the WEA dude has a valid point. I personally don't want to set a precedent and see Focus on the Family doling out cash to my kid's teachers.

That aside, I really don't know what the actual hang up is for the Washington deal. I haven't found anyone giving too many specifics.

[mnealtx 0]

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That aside, I really don't know what the actual hang up is for the Washington deal. I haven't found anyone giving too many specifics.

Re-read the last 6 words of my initial post in-thread.

FWIW, I *do* understand your point - I just don't necessarily agree with it. This foundation is rewarding teachers for increasing student performance in existing subjects, not trying to change the curriculum.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[TheAnvil 0]

I think any organization should be free to give $$ to whomever it chooses for whatever reason it chooses so long as there is no immorality or criminal activity involved. WHy don't you?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[pirana 0]

To really get to performance, reward performing students. Pump all that money into scholarships. Rewarding good teaching sounds worthy, but the mechanics of measurement, all the personal and organizational political agendas, and the big chunk that will end up wasted by the very nature of instituting such a program work to reduce the return.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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I think any organization should be free to give $$ to whomever it chooses for whatever reason it chooses so long as there is no immorality or criminal activity involved. WHy don't you?

Good point. If I'm filthy stinking rich, and I pick up the paper and see that a school has raised their graduates SAT scores by 15%, and decide to send a $10K check to each teacher at that school; on what legal grounds can I be stopped?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[kallend 1,672]

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I think any organization should be free to give $$ to whomever it chooses for whatever reason it chooses so long as there is no immorality or criminal activity involved. WHy don't you?

Agreed. But it is not clear from the article exactly what was being proposed, nor were the criteria for the "bonuses" laid out too well. All that was mentioned were AP classes, but very few teachers get to teach AP classes. What about the poor bu**ers who have to teach remedial classes to wannabe delinquents?

Without more details it is really hard to decide if the union is being unreasonable, or if the proposal is unreasonable.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[idrankwhat 0]

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I think any organization should be free to give $$ to whomever it chooses for whatever reason it chooses so long as there is no immorality or criminal activity involved. WHy don't you?

No, I don't. I don't want Pat Robertson, Hagee, Parsley, or Osama bin Laden giving money to my kid's teachers. Its bad enough that we let our politicians collect that sort of tribute.

[idrankwhat 0]

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I think any organization should be free to give $$ to whomever it chooses for whatever reason it chooses so long as there is no immorality or criminal activity involved. WHy don't you?

Good point. If I'm filthy stinking rich, and I pick up the paper and see that a school has raised their graduates SAT scores by 15%, and decide to send a $10K check to each teacher at that school; on what legal grounds can I be stopped?

What if, instead of SAT scores, the driving force behind your neighbor's much higher degree of philanthropy was a thorough knowledge of Islamic extremism, the history of pornography or communist philosophy? Do you want him padding your teacher's retirement accounts?

[TheAnvil 0]

So you don't believe in economic freedom, eh? And who, praytell should decide whom may conduct transactions with whom? Yourself? A special board appointed by a governor? Make it a federal thing, perhaps? Another bit of regulation to drag down the economy?



Absurd.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Squeak 17]

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That aside, I really don't know what the actual hang up is for the Washington deal. I haven't found anyone giving too many specifics.

Re-read the last 6 words of my initial post in-thread.

FWIW, I *do* understand your point - I just don't necessarily agree with it. This foundation is rewarding teachers for increasing student performance in existing subjects, not trying to change the curriculum.

I personally (as a Teacher) find the idea appalling. the system does need more money, but not directly to the teachers. smaller class sizes, better facilities in lower socio-economic areas etc...

If they TRULY want to give to education do it properly.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[idrankwhat 0]

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So you don't believe in economic freedom, eh?

Look at the government that you get when people are free to bribe public officials.
But I do find it interesting that you would have no problem with Ahmadinejad paying teachers directly for teaching history to his satisfaction.

[DanG 1]

The teachers are government employees. A private entity giving money directly to government employees to encourage certain behavior is called bribery. It's illegal.

This has nothing to do with union vs. non-union.

I am staunchly anti-union and I can see that.

- Dan G

[mnealtx 0]

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The teachers are government employees. A private entity giving money directly to government employees to encourage certain behavior is called bribery. It's illegal.

This has nothing to do with union vs. non-union.

I am staunchly anti-union and I can see that.

OOOOOOooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkk..... so now we're equating a performance bonus (for what they are ALREADY DOING [or should be doing]) with bribery???

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DanG 1]

So the guys down at the DMV processes your driver's license application. In order to get him to do it a little faster, you give him $50. It's just a performance bonus, right?

If you can't see how paying teachers to teach the way YOU want them to teach regardless of what the state wants is the same as a bribe, then there's no point in continuing.

- Dan G

[mnealtx 0]

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So the guys down at the DMV processes your driver's license application. In order to get him to do it a little faster, you give him $50. It's just a performance bonus, right?

If you can't see how paying teachers to teach the way YOU want them to teach regardless of what the state wants is the same as a bribe, then there's no point in continuing.

Correct your assumption that there's some sort of string attached (outside of student's test scores improving in math / science) and your argument could be somewhat valid.

Notice I said "could".

A better comparison would be the dmv worker receiving a bonus for handling the most license renewals for the quarter - improving how he/she does the job.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DanG 1]

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A better comparison would be the dmv worker receiving a bonus for handling the most license renewals for the quarter - improving how he/she does the job.

That's an excellent comparison, and I think it would be fine. If the bonus was administered by the STATE, not some private entity.

I have no problem with someone donating money to the state to use as performance bonuses. It is the fact that a private entity decides who gets them based on their own metrics that is the problem. And even though strings may not be attached now, it's not hard to image them getting attached later.

- Dan G