Prince Harry fighting the Taleban

[KelliJ 0]

Where in your definition of chickenhawk does it distinguish between supporting a military action that was established before they took office or after? Clinton sent troops to Somalia....that is a fact. Clinton sent troops to Haiti. That also is a fact.
Since I have told you twice I am not Bubba I must assume that you insist upon calling me that in order to provoke an angry response. That is called TROLLING and is specifically prohibited by the rules of this forum. How would you like it if I called you "Dyke"?

[Amazon 7]

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Where in your definition of chickenhawk does it distinguish between supporting a military action that was established before they took office or after? Clinton sent troops to Somalia....that is a fact. Clinton sent troops to Haiti. That also is a fact.
Since I have told you twice I am not Bubba I must assume that you insist upon calling me that in order to provoke an angry response. That is called TROLLING and is specifically prohibited by the rules of this forum. How would you like it if I called you "Dyke"?

I think Bubba fits far better..Bubba is as Bubba does

Others have tried the Dyke thing.. which is soooo typical of the far right wingers here when they get all flustered and cant keep up...or when I look down my nose at them as completely not worth my time... and tell them I am SOOOO not interested.

By the way.. its a good way to get banned...

[KelliJ 0]

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Where in your definition of chickenhawk does it distinguish between supporting a military action that was established before they took office or after? Clinton sent troops to Somalia....that is a fact. Clinton sent troops to Haiti. That also is a fact.
Since I have told you twice I am not Bubba I must assume that you insist upon calling me that in order to provoke an angry response. That is called TROLLING and is specifically prohibited by the rules of this forum. How would you like it if I called you "Dyke"?

I think Bubba fits far better..Bubba is as Bubba does

Others have tried the Dyke thing.. which is soooo typical of the far right wingers here when they get all flustered and cant keep up...

By the way.. its a good way to get banned...

Last time...do not call me Bubba again. I do not like it and take it as a personal insult. That is another way to get banned. (You paying attention, Mods?)
I am NOT a right winger as you think i am, nor am i a liberal like you. I'm about as moderate as they come and have voted for candidates from both parties as well as independents.

I've watched your posts in other threads and this one holds to form. When you start to lose the debate you resort to insults.
It must be doubly troubling when you deny Clinton being a chickenhawk and then provide a definition that fits him to a "T".

[kallend 1,648]

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If you are referring to the conflict during the 50s then I wasn't even alive yet.

What kind of lame excuse is that?

A lot better excuse than Clinton had for hiding from the draft. Or Bush.

You still have no standing on which to call anyone who did serve in any branch of the military...NG or otherwise...a coward. As little as he did, it was far more than you and Clinton combined.

Chickenhawk is a description that fits - I can use it quite accurately to describe both Bush and Cheney. It doesn't fit me, though.

What do you think I should have been doing, then? And when?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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I am NOT a right winger as you think i am, nor am i a liberal like you. I'm about as moderate as they come and have voted for candidates from both parties as well as independents.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... oh yeah... right...


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh yeah thats right.. anyone who is not to the right of Genghis Kan is a liberinl in your far right world where you consider yourselves to be "moderates"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


You are one funny dude........you been looking in a certain other posters mirror??

[KelliJ 0]

I never said you were a chickenhawk. I never even suggested it. In fact, i would argue against it since I am familiar with your posts here against the conflict in Iraq.
As far as what i think you should have been doing....That was up to you. But if you didn't serve in any way, shape, or form then you have no standing to call Bush a coward for flying in the Guard. It was, as i said, far more military service than you.

[kallend 1,648]

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I never said you were a chickenhawk. I never even suggested it. In fact, i would argue against it since I am familiar with your posts here against the conflict in Iraq.
As far as what i think you should have been doing....That was up to you. But if you didn't serve in any way, shape, or form then you have no standing to call Bush a coward for flying in the Guard. It was, as i said, far more military service than you.

CHICKENHAWK, dear. CHICKENHAWK. Which is exactly what he is.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

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Bush at least was in a position where he could have been sent.

The 102's were sent back to the US in 68, the same year that Bush joined the ANG. There was no chance that his squadron was going to Vietnam.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Lindsey 0]

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I never said you were a chickenhawk. I never even suggested it. In fact, i would argue against it since I am familiar with your posts here against the conflict in Iraq.
As far as what i think you should have been doing....That was up to you. But if you didn't serve in any way, shape, or form then you have no standing to call Bush a coward for flying in the Guard. It was, as i said, far more military service than you.

CHICKENHAWK, dear, not coward. CHICKENHAWK. Which is exactly what he is.

It is nice to be able to actually UNDERSTAND the words you use, isn't it.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rickjump1 0]

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Forget somebody?

We were talking about RICH BOYS.. from the "best" families....

In the UK... I guess some still believe in service to country even when they are from their royal family.

HEre in the US its exactly the opposite.. the upper classes have ZERO desire to teach their young what service to their country means...but they sure will pay LIP service to god and country and patriotism... Gee sounds like a hell of a lot of the followers of our Chimp in Cheif.

BC no matter how much you hate him and want to belive that your fascist in charge is an "everyman"...it just wont spin your way no matter HOW much you want it to.

You forgot Al Gore. Yes, he did go,but I believe he had his own bodyguard, never saw any combat, was a REMF, and came home in less than a year. Kerry also went. Interesting how most who served with him, thought of him: officers and enlisted. I don't think he finished a year either.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Amazon 7]

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Kerry also went. Interesting how most who served with him, thought of him: officers and enlisted. I don't think he finished a year either.

Want to try again???

More right wing revisionist history.. you guys REALLLLY do need to study more and listen to FAUX NEWS less

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/politics/campaign/24COMB.html?ex=1392958800&en=760c0e92cabf648c&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND


Another explosion had injured Mr. Kerry's right arm. But he ran forward to the bow, reached over with his good arm and pulled Lieutenant Rassman — weighted down with wet clothes, equipment and heavy boots — to safety.

"It was a brave thing to do," Mr. Sandusky said. "We had been in firefights with John before. We already knew he has unfailing instincts. We owe him our lives, and he owes us his. We were a boat crew. We were tight."

There was a strikingly strong bond between Lieutenant Kerry, who has often been portrayed as aristocratic and aloof, and the enlisted sailors on the two swift boats he commanded.

Though some of the men were stunned when their hard-charging commander turned so publicly against the war in 1971, the boat crews Lieutenant Kerry led have now become an integral part of his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination. Of the nine surviving crewmen, seven, including Mr. Sandusky, have made campaign appearances for Mr. Kerry. Another, Mr. Sandusky said, supports Mr. Kerry but wants nothing to do with politics. The crew has lost touch with the remaining man.

Two of Mr. Kerry's fellow swift boat skippers have also campaigned, and Mr. Rassman, a Republican, stunned the candidate last month when he joined the campaign in Iowa.

"I love John Kerry," said James R. Wasser, who in fall 1968 was the lead petty officer, or second in command, on Mr. Kerry's first boat, P.C.F.-44, for patrol craft fast. "He's my brother. I would do anything for him."

This is not the first time Vietnam veterans have come to Mr. Kerry's aid. In his first race for the Senate, in 1984, he was challenged as a hypocrite by his Democratic primary opponent, Representative James M. Shannon, for strongly opposing the war yet fighting in it. Mr. Kerry said the comment impugned the service of veterans. Mr. Shannon replied, "That dog won't hunt, John."

Vietnam veterans were furious. They formed a group known as the Doghunters to heckle Mr. Shannon at his rallies. And they held their own rally in support of Mr. Kerry, helping turn the tide for him.



SO go ahead and try to sully his service like so many of you and the far right wingwho NEVER SERVED who dug up the Swiftboaters to slam veterans have done before...

[KelliJ 0]

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I never said you were a chickenhawk. I never even suggested it. In fact, i would argue against it since I am familiar with your posts here against the conflict in Iraq.
As far as what i think you should have been doing....That was up to you. But if you didn't serve in any way, shape, or form then you have no standing to call Bush a coward for flying in the Guard. It was, as i said, far more military service than you.

CHICKENHAWK, dear. CHICKENHAWK. Which is exactly what he is.

I never said he wasn't. Pay attention and you would know that.

[kallend 1,648]

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I never said you were a chickenhawk. I never even suggested it. In fact, i would argue against it since I am familiar with your posts here against the conflict in Iraq.
As far as what i think you should have been doing....That was up to you. But if you didn't serve in any way, shape, or form then you have no standing to call Bush a coward for flying in the Guard. It was, as i said, far more military service than you.

CHICKENHAWK, dear. CHICKENHAWK. Which is exactly what he is.

I never said he wasn't. Pay attention and you would know that.

Pay attention? Irony score 10/10.

I challenge you to find a post I've made in the past 6 years where I called Bush a "coward".

However, it's good to know that you consider Bush a CHICKENHAWK too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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You forgot Al Gore. Yes, he did go,but I believe he had his own bodyguard, never saw any combat, was a REMF, and came home in less than a year.

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/politics/camp/071100wh-gore.html

n some ways, Army Private Al Gore was never and could never have been just one of the guys, another grunt.

Recruiters were afraid to even sign him up without calling in a supervisor, once they heard his name and caught on that he was the son of that antiwar Senator Albert Gore.

"Those with lesser rank bumped him up to me because they were scared of making a mistake," said Dess Stokes, the staff sergeant on duty at the Newark Armed Forces Entrance and Examination Station, where Mr. Gore went to enlist, hoping to avoid notice, in August 1969. "We all knew who he was because of his daddy opposing the war."

No less than the Army's highest-ranking officer, Gen. William C. Westmoreland, singled him out during a visit to Fort Rucker, Ala., where Mr. Gore was stationed for more than a year. The Army chief of staff stopped in the middle of a ceremony to pull the young man aside for a private chat -- and kept Mr. Gore's superior officers waiting, and watching, while he asked one of the lowest-ranking men on the base for his thoughts on why so many young people opposed the war.

Yet there is no evidence that Mr. Gore sought special treatment, or that the extra notice he got anyway provided any real protection. On the contrary, as an Army journalist, Mr. Gore probably assumed more risk than he had to, choppering around South Vietnam interviewing soldiers who had just seen action.

"Anybody who knew Al Gore in Vietnam knows he could have sat on his butt and he didn't," said Michael Roche, Mr. Gore's editor on The Castle Courier, the newspaper of the Army's Engineering Command in Long Binh, near Saigon. Among 30 or 40 part-time correspondents and 3 or 4 reporters, Mr. Roche said, "I didn't have one who traveled as much as he did."

And if Mr. Gore has a dirty secret from Vietnam, it is not that he spent his tour hiding in headquarters, but that he found much of the experience exhilarating and loved feeling "more alive," to use his words, in the middle of the war that he and millions of other Americans hated.

Avoiding an Alternative to Service

Al Gore's military record is in no particular need of improvement. He was one of only about a dozen of the 1,115 Harvard graduates in the Class of '69 who went to Vietnam. And even before enlisting, he passed up a chance to serve in the National Guard -- the military option chosen by his presidential opponent, George W. Bush.

A cousin of Mr. Gore said she and her then-husband had secured the promise of a place for him in the Alabama Guard.

"I had friends who had gone to Vietnam, and one who had come back a paraplegic, and I was beside myself wanting to keep Al out of there," said the cousin, Gayle Byrne, of Birmingham, who grew up near Carthage, Tenn., where the Gores spent summers on their farm. So Ms. Byrne's former husband, a member of the Guard, asked a well-placed contact to hold a spot for Mr. Gore.

"When the word came back that yes, they would hold a slot, we were so excited," Ms. Byrne remembered. "But he said, "I appreciate what you've done, but I just don't believe I can do this.' He talked about how small the draft roll was in Carthage" -- and how, if he did not serve, someone he knew would have to take his place.

The decision was complicated by his father's coming Senate race, which everyone knew would be tough, in large part because of Senator Gore's stand against the war. Though Albert Gore voted to authorize American involvement in August 1964, by the end of that year he was pushing for a negotiated settlement with the Communists.

.........................

After five months in Vietnam, Mr. Gore applied for and received an early out to attend Vanderbilt divinity school in Nashville. The Army was granting such outs easily at that point.

Though he had gone in hating everything about the Vietnam War, he was coming out with a more complicated assessment of the situation -- and an evolving view on the use of American military force.




So.. the right continues to run him down.. he served.. he went to the Nam...he was a rich kid who did not have to.. he did not use the service to his country like the right wingers did. And then after 5 months he got an early out like a lot of others were doing....at the time.
For as patriotic as so many on the right pretend to be.. it makes me sick everytime they run their mouths about Nam Vets who actually went... its as if THEY are the ones who are spitting on the veterans... well done man... but its typical of you guys.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/gorevietnam.asp

[KelliJ 0]

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I never said you were a chickenhawk. I never even suggested it. In fact, i would argue against it since I am familiar with your posts here against the conflict in Iraq.
As far as what i think you should have been doing....That was up to you. But if you didn't serve in any way, shape, or form then you have no standing to call Bush a coward for flying in the Guard. It was, as i said, far more military service than you.

CHICKENHAWK, dear. CHICKENHAWK. Which is exactly what he is.

I never said he wasn't. Pay attention and you would know that.

Pay attention? Irony score 10/10.

I challenge you to find a post I've made in the past 6 years where I called Bush a "coward".

However, it's good to know that you consider Bush a CHICKENHAWK too.

You also get an irony score of 10/10. I will answer your challenge the same way you answered mine in another thread...I will ignore it.

[KelliJ 0]

And Bush did not have to join the Guard. He also could have easily sat on his butt behind a desk, but instead he chose a riskier option.

[KelliJ 0]

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Bush at least was in a position where he could have been sent.

The 102's were sent back to the US in 68, the same year that Bush joined the ANG. There was no chance that his squadron was going to Vietnam.

The Air Force started to pull F-102s out of southeast Asia in December 1969 and finished in May 1971.
Bush finished his combat crew training on the 102 in June 1970.

[Lindsey 0]

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And Bush did not have to join the Guard. He also could have easily sat on his butt behind a desk, but instead he chose a riskier option.

Since he had become eligible for the draft, he really didn't have a whole lot options. He chose the least risky of them all, pretty much.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Amazon 7]

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And Bush did not have to join the Guard. He also could have easily sat on his butt behind a desk, but instead he chose a riskier option.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
VP Cheney - several deferments (1, 2), the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") (1)
Former Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State

Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. (1)


Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1), too busy being a Republican.

Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1, 2)

[rickjump1 0]

Kerry came home a hero alright. "Nineteen of the twenty-three officers who served with Kerry in Vietnam signed a letter as did nearly every officer who commanded Kerry for any subistancal period of time, including retired Coast Guard Captain Adrian Lonsdale, retired Navy Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, retired Lieutenant Commander George Elloit, and retired Lieutenant Commander Hibbard. More than 90% of Kerry"s former commanders and squadron mates agreed to sign the letter of condemnation which stated, 'It is our collective judgement that, upon your return home from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, Marines, saliors, and airmen of the war'."...These quotes came from RECKLESS DISREGARD bY LT Col. Rogert "Buzz" Patterson USAF (retired).. Oh, I forgot, Kerry betrayed his country while he was still in the US Navy Reserve. He consorted with the North Vietnamese (tried to broker his own peace agreement) and later with the Sandanistas? spelling. I put him and Ted Kennedy in the same bowel of tripe gumbo. If he's your hero go for it. There are some real heroes that are Democrats; please choose one.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

Gore and Kerry both went because they needed a merit badge for their future political careers. Wouldn't you agree?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Amazon 7]

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The Air Force started to pull F-102s out of southeast Asia in December 1969 and finished in May 1971.
Bush finished his combat crew training on the 102 in June 1970.

Yeah Right

http://www.phonyfighterpilot.com/

SEE PICTURE ATTACHED

The fabricated federal document was found by Hugh Scott in February 2004 while

surfing the Internet for information about Dub-ya's controversial military service.

Of all places, the text had been published on a U.S. State Department website for

the whole world to see. Everyone but the sleepwalking press, that is.



Brazenly, the paragraph above claims George W. flew F102 interceptors almost

SIX years when the actual time was 27 months, according to official ANG records.



The biography contains other misrepresentations as well -- all intentional, not typos

or mistaken dictation.





FACTS CHECK



BOGUS BIO: Bush "spent two years on active duty, flying F-102 fighter interceptors."

FACT: He served 18 months on active duty, not 24. Of those, 13 months were spent in

basic training and USAF flight school, NONE of it flying F102s.





It’s worth noting that George W. was the only National Guard pilot during the Vietnam

War to be commissioned without any officer training whatsoever. He never attended

a service academy like West Point, never took college ROTC, never went to Officers

Candidate School and never served on active duty as an enlisted man.

So how did Dub-ya learn to be an officer? He didn’t. The only military training Shrub

received prior to being commissioned happened during a six-week basic airman course,

the equivalent of Army boot camp for privates. Even more absurd, while his fellow

recruits marched, pulled KP and cleaned toilets, Airman Bush was given a week off to

work for the GOP in Florida.

Later that year, 1968, when he headed off to fly Air Force trainers at Moody AFB, GA,

2nd Lt. Bush barely knew how to salute, much less lead men. And he didn’t learn the

art in flight school, either. His time there was devoted to airmanship, not leadership.



Had Dub-ya earned his commission the old-fashioned way -- by working for it -- he

might've finished his Air National Guard commitment honorably. More importantly,

America probably wouldn't be quagmired in Iraq.

Back to George W.'s phony Guard history




BOGUS BIO: "For almost four years after that, he was on a part-time status."

FACT: After becoming combat qualified in ANG F102s, Lt. Bush flew just 22 months.



Because of personal problems, such as excessive drinking, poor airmanship and a

reported fear of flying, he quit interceptors in April 1972. The self-grounding left him

30 months short of the asserted six-year period, which he had promised to complete

under his sworn Guard obligation as a pilot who received flight training costing over

a million dollars.





BOGUS BIO: Shrub flew "occasional missions to help the Air National Guard keep

two of its F-102s on round-the-clock alert."

FACT: On August 1, 1972, ANG Major General Francis Greenlief grounded him for failing

to take his required annual USAF medical exam. Thus Lt. Bush wasn't qualified to fly

F102s during the time claimed in his falsified biography, much less perform alert duty as

alleged.





For three years Bush's bogus biography went undetected on the State Department website,

missed by thousands of web-surfing journalists except Hugh Scott. To validate his discovery,

he called the Boston Globe. Impressed, it ran the story the next morning, February 28, 2004,

and gave him credit as the source.



Reacting to the disclosure, the Bush administration refused to say who wrote the false ANG

history and how it ended up on the Internet. Instead, White House communications director

Dan Bartlett, now Bush's legal counsel, explained lamely that the State Department bio did

not "reflect the facts of his service" and would be "corrected."

[Amazon 7]

You are pointing out things that happened AFTER he came home and there you are doing the same god damn thing.....but you are slamming his service.. and that is something the men on his boat... have not done... I would say THEY are the ones who knew him under fire.

How do you justify all the FAKE Patriots in the right wing who ran like hell from ever serving... ????

nope.. no hypocrisy there

[KelliJ 0]

Why do you even waste your time posting garbage like that? All one has to do is take one look at it and it is obvious that the whole mess is just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo without an ounce of substance. You don't actually think anyone is going to take it seriously, do you?
It would be disgusting if it weren't so funny!

[Lindsey 0]

Because GWB would not lie....ummm unless he were talking.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail