Michigan gun crimes are down

[GQ_jumper 4]

But I live in colorado, so that does jack shit to make me safer, so why is it posted. Is it really so important that someone prove the value of a CCW that they have to quote meaningless statistics. I fully support the 2nd amendment and think that people who don't pose a threat to the public should have the right to carry a weapon if they so choose and have been properly trained in the use of that weapon. But it's not so important to me that I have to go out of my way to try and find a link between lower crime rates and thenumber of CCW holders on the street.

If someone really wants to prove their point go through every police report in the country and find out how many show that crimes were prevented by a citizen with a concealed weapon, then we'll talk. An article that says ten more people applied for a CCW and the same week there were ten less murders than average in the same state proves nothing.

I'm just throwing that out there for everyone to think about, have a nice day everyone, whether or not you choose to stick a gun in your pants and hide it during your day-to-day activities. Unless you do it without a permit, then in that case, go fuck yourself.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Unless you do it without a permit, then in that case, go fuck yourself.

You're posting without a permit - go fuck YOURSELF...

Now that we've got the irrelevant inanities out of the way...

Quote

show that crimes were prevented by a citizen with a concealed weapon, then we'll talk.

http://www.nrapublications.org/armed%20citizen/Index.asp

http://www.kressworks.com/Politics/Gun_Control/dgu/defensive_gun_uses.html

http://www.americasarmedcitizens.com/

I also refer you to the recent ATTEMPTED church shooting, where the would-be murdered was shot by *gasp* A CCW HOLDER.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[KelliJ 0]

Last I checked the number of crimes committed by guns was still 0.
I have a CCW permit. I rarely carry. What surprises me are the number of people who, for whatever reason, support the 2nd, support CCW, yet criticize those who do choose to carry. Very confusing, to say the least.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Apparently your reading comprehension skills are slightly below par tonight, you completely missed the point of my thread, wow...how sad.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Apparently your reading comprehension skills are slightly below par tonight, you completely missed the point of my thread, wow...how sad.

You asked for examples...I provided them.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lefty 0]

Quote

But I live in colorado, so that does jack shit to make me safer, so why is it posted. Is it really so important that someone prove the value of a CCW that they have to quote meaningless statistics. I fully support the 2nd amendment and think that people who don't pose a threat to the public should have the right to carry a weapon if they so choose and have been properly trained in the use of that weapon. But it's not so important to me that I have to go out of my way to try and find a link between lower crime rates and thenumber of CCW holders on the street.

If someone really wants to prove their point go through every police report in the country and find out how many show that crimes were prevented by a citizen with a concealed weapon, then we'll talk. An article that says ten more people applied for a CCW and the same week there were ten less murders than average in the same state proves nothing.

I'm just throwing that out there for everyone to think about, have a nice day everyone, whether or not you choose to stick a gun in your pants and hide it during your day-to-day activities. Unless you do it without a permit, then in that case, go fuck yourself.

Wow...how far out of your way did you go to write this post?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[GQ_jumper 4]

*deep breath* *think happy thoughts*

OK, go back and read my original post about 6 or 7 times, then go slam your head against a wall, a brick one prefferably, at least twice, then go read my post again. Pretty please.

I was pointing out how pointless it is to make a post such as the original one I spun this off of in order to make a point. I agree with you that citizens who hold a CCW can effectively help to prevent crime in certain situations, but despite that do you really think that posting every article linking crime statistics and concealed carry availability really makes a difference in the grand scheme of online debates?

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[mnealtx 0]

In the grand scheme of online debates, it's equally as useless as posts about the latest shooting, the latest conspiracy theory or how shitty the government is.

Do you have a point, other than that you don't want to hear about them (which could be done by simply not opening the thread)?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lefty 0]

Quote

in the grand scheme of online debates?

This made me laugh. What do you think is so grand about what we're doing here? We're just a bunch of people who are posting our musings and opinions on an internet forum...for skydiving.
As for the original article, it's like mnealtx said: if I have to hear about every time someone uses a gun incorrectly or for evil purposes, I don't see anything wrong with posting an article that supports my position. Further, I imagine that finding the article, clicking over to dz.com, and posting it required a damn sight less effort that your pointless rant.
Moral of the story, GQ: relax. At the end of the day, I doubt any of these posts are going to change anyone's mind. They do, however, help pass the time. Even yours can be used for this purpose. So, thanks!

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

But it's not so important to me that I have to go out of my way to try and find a link between lower crime rates and thenumber of CCW holders on the street.

It is important to you to have it shown that at the very least, CCW holders don't result in an increase in crime rates. This is much easier to show than an overall decrease, which gets mixed in with national economics, age demographics, and factors as trivial as the weather for the year.

[kallend 1,853]

Quote

Quote

But it's not so important to me that I have to go out of my way to try and find a link between lower crime rates and thenumber of CCW holders on the street.

It is important to you to have it shown that at the very least, CCW holders don't result in an increase in crime rates. This is much easier to show than an overall decrease, which gets mixed in with national economics, age demographics, and factors as trivial as the weather for the year.

That is because, in general, getting a CCW permit involves a rather more rigorous background check and training than does just buying a gun.

If you make a THOROUGH check to EXCLUDE unsuitable people (like criminals) from having CCW permits, then you'd expect CCW permit holders to be more law abiding than the general population which includes all the criminals and loonies who couldn't get permits.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Quote

But it's not so important to me that I have to go out of my way to try and find a link between lower crime rates and thenumber of CCW holders on the street.

It is important to you to have it shown that at the very least, CCW holders don't result in an increase in crime rates. This is much easier to show than an overall decrease, which gets mixed in with national economics, age demographics, and factors as trivial as the weather for the year.

That is because, in general, getting a CCW permit involves a rather more rigorous background check and training than does just buying a gun.

If you make a THOROUGH check to EXCLUDE unsuitable people (like criminals) from having CCW permits, then you'd expect CCW permit holders to be more law abiding than the general population which includes all the criminals and loonies who couldn't get permits.

In Iowa it is the SAME back ground check. Either pay to get a purchase permit or waiting the three days. All checks are the same

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

do you really think that posting every article linking crime statistics and concealed carry availability really makes a difference in the grand scheme of online debates?

For some people, yes. The repetition of seeing the proof that in one state after another, CCW does not cause crime problems, finally sinks in after a while as the real truth.

For gun-o-phobes, no amount of truth-telling will sway their anti-gun opinions.