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QuoteWhich leads me to ask, is a situation like you describe, is there a solution?
I dont see a solution. Short f going door to door and take every gun you can find. Some on here would love to see that but they dont have the balls to come out and say it. But it still wont get every gun off the street.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteHOW WOULD YOU PREVENT MENTALLY DISTURBED PEOPLE AND FELONS FROM GETTING GUNS?
Most of them sure as hell are not going to go to a gun store and but it the legal way. So how can I stop someone from buying one illegally? I dont have an answer.
So you don't think there's ANY solution to 300,000 guns being stolen every year from "law abiding gun owners". Like making gun owners responsible for the security of their weapons.
What a cop-out!
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
nerdgirl 0
QuoteWhich leads me to ask, is a situation like you describe, is there a solution?
I dunno. [Edit to add: I do think meaningful steps toward solution(s) are *very* possible but require more careful thought and inquiry than I'm giving it this morning.]
Whether it's gun violence or terrorists attacking industrial chemical facilities, ignoring one (or two) parts of risk (consequence x probability) & threat (capability, motivation, vulnerability) is unlikely to yield a meaningful solution.
I suspect that the most complete or effective solution may be more offensive/egregious than the problem, specifically in limitation of civil liberties in our heterogenous US society.
My ad hoc risk calculus is that the probability is low but that the consequence can be fairly substantial ... in a somewhat limited parallel, like terrorism, in terms of less tangible factors than just number of fatalities.
What's the overall US populace willingness to accept risk? Perhaps lower than mine.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
QuoteSo you don't think there's ANY solution to 300,000 guns being stolen every year from "law abiding gun owners". Like making gun owners responsible for the security of their weapons.
My home gets broken in to and some of my gins get stolen and used in a crime and it is my fault. Man you have some twisted thinking. I am so glad I never had you as a professor when I was in school.
QuoteWhat a cop-out!
The king of "one line zingers" calling me a cop out! Wow! Look into the mirror pal!
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
rushmc 18
QuoteQuoteWhich leads me to ask, is a situation like you describe, is there a solution?
I dunno.
Whether it's gun violence or terrorists attacking industrial chemical facilities, ignoring one (or two) parts of risk (consequence x probability) & threat (capability, motivation, vulnerability) is unlikely to yield a meaningful solution.
I suspect that the most complete or effective solution may be more offensive/egregious than the problem, specifically in limitation of civil liberties in our heterogenous US society.
My ad hoc risk calculus is that the probability is low but that the consequence can be fairly substantial ... in a somewhat limited parallel, like terrorism, in terms of less tangible factors than just number of fatalities.
What's the overall US populace willingness to accept risk? Perhaps lower than mine.
VR/Marg
I wonder how many realize how profound what you just said here. really is?
An example for me.
I would arm more people, even on airplanes. The chances of a nut getting control are greatly diminished.
I am "willing" to arm more people and have fewer cops.
Now, these may be a bit extreem but they make the point.
You said this differently but in a nut shell, what are we, as a people, willing to give up to be secure?
Persoally, I am "willing" to give up a hell of a lot less than we already have but in the same breath, there are some things that others call "right to privacy" that I would give up to feel more secure.
Where is the balance? I sure as hell do not have the answer. I only have my gut feelings
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 18
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhich leads me to ask, is a situation like you describe, is there a solution?
I dunno.
Whether it's gun violence or terrorists attacking industrial chemical facilities, ignoring one (or two) parts of risk (consequence x probability) & threat (capability, motivation, vulnerability) is unlikely to yield a meaningful solution.
I suspect that the most complete or effective solution may be more offensive/egregious than the problem, specifically in limitation of civil liberties in our heterogenous US society.
My ad hoc risk calculus is that the probability is low but that the consequence can be fairly substantial ... in a somewhat limited parallel, like terrorism, in terms of less tangible factors than just number of fatalities.
What's the overall US populace willingness to accept risk? Perhaps lower than mine.
VR/Marg
I wonder how many realize how profound what you just said here. really is?
An example for me.
I would arm more people, even on airplanes. The chances of a nut getting control are greatly diminished.
I am "willing" to arm more people and have fewer cops.
Now, these may be a bit extreem but they make the point.
You said this differently but in a nut shell, what are we, as a people, willing to give up to be secure?
Persoally, I am "willing" to give up a hell of a lot less than we already have but in the same breath, there are some things that others call "right to privacy" that I would give up to feel more secure.
Where is the balance? I sure as hell do not have the answer. I only have my gut feelings
To all
I think the biggest road block to coming to decisions is the tone of the debate leading up to a decision, and the the choice we make regarding our aceptance of the decision and how we will deal with it.
Change is tough. Change sucks. Change is inevitable. Solution? Acept change or start the debate, a civil debate, to change the change.
What part is missing today? I think a clue is buried in the text above. Do you?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteSo you don't think there's ANY solution to 300,000 guns being stolen every year from "law abiding gun owners". Like making gun owners responsible for the security of their weapons.
My home gets broken in to and some of my gins get stolen and used in a crime and it is my fault. Man you have some twisted thinking. I am so glad I never had you as a professor when I was in school.QuoteWhat a cop-out!
The king of "one line zingers" calling me a cop out! Wow! Look into the mirror pal!
I've made a concrete suggestion to make it more difficult for loonies to get hold of firearms. You haven't - all you've done is grumble about being held responsible for your own weapon and come up with no idea of your own.
No clue!
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 2,427
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>How about no more low ball prison terms for the convicted.
I'd go along with that - as long as it was paired with laws that require gun owners to be responsible for the security of their weapons.
I'd go along with that - as long as it was paired with laws that require gun owners to be responsible for the security of their weapons.
QuoteI've made a concrete suggestion to make it more difficult for loonies to get hold of firearms.
Not really. All you want to do is go after someone who didnt pull the trigger. You hate firearms so you want anyone who had anything to do with it to be prosecuted.
QuoteYou haven't -
Because I dont have the answer. At least I can admit it unlike youself. If you had it your way you would be going door to door to confiscate. In the end it still wouldnt work. People will still have guns. The response then would be, "well we had to try something". If you can come up with a law that would make it impossible for them to buy a firearm I would love to hear it. Your plan of (I will ablib here) "Make sure a convicted felon dont get guns" is comical at best. It's already against the law. What else do you suggest. Criminals will always get guns. If you dont like that fact, well you will live the rest of your life pissed off then because that is reality.
Quote- all you've done is grumble about being held responsible for your own weapon and come up with no idea of your own.
And all you do it throw bullshit ideas that will have no effect and are instead of putting the blame on the ass who shot up a joint, you want to go after someone else. Nice thinking, it is never the person who committed the crime fault. Someone else had to push him to do it.
QuoteNo clue!
I have no clue? So because I am not a physics profesor I have not clue? How many gun conventions have you been to? How many guns do you even own? When was the last time you went to a conservation club to help teach a gun safety course to kids. Why dont you come to Newark with me and see how these gun laws are working. Since New Jersey has some of the toughest in the country I would think Newark would be a safe place. Come out here and see reality or are you to isolated in your little classroom and sneer down at your nose at others who dont agree with you thinkings?
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteI've made a concrete suggestion to make it more difficult for loonies to get hold of firearms.
Not really. All you want to do is go after someone who didnt pull the trigger. You hate firearms so you want anyone who had anything to do with it to be prosecuted.
Blah blah blah.
Criminals will always get guns.?
MEGA COP OUT.
If YOU can't or won't be responsible for the security of your own weapon, you should NOT have one.
What's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 18
What's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
Now here is a coherent statement
Make yourself feel better?
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Yep, just keep "generalizing" cause that will help you feel you have made your point.
Come on, you can do better
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteMEGA COP OUT.
Mega cop out? I guess I should take your lead and just throw out some one line zingers. At least I tried to make a point that you just wont accept. So you dont agree with that criminals will always get guns? How do you stop them? Are you gonna go to I-94 off of Randolph Ave. and walk the street telling the thugs to turn them in?
QuoteIf YOU can't or won't be responsible for the security of your own weapon, you should NOT have one.
Who are you to determine if I am responsible or not? They are in my home, locked up, and I lock my doors. If someone steals them you want me to be help responsible? How about nail the SOB who stole them?
QuoteWhat's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
If thousands of laws on the books already hasnt helped than nothing will I am afraid. So just keep throwing laws at the wall. Doubt any will stick.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
rushmc 18
QuoteQuoteMEGA COP OUT.
Mega cop out? I guess I should take your lead and just throw out some one line zingers. At least I tried to make a point that you just wont accept. So you dont agree with that criminals will always get guns? How do you stop them? Are you gonna go to I-94 off of Randolph Ave. and walk the street telling the thugs to turn them in?QuoteIf YOU can't or won't be responsible for the security of your own weapon, you should NOT have one.
Who are you to determine if I am responsible or not? They are in my home, locked up, and I lock my doors. If someone steals them you want me to be help responsible? How about nail the SOB who stole them?QuoteWhat's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
If thousands of laws on the books already hasnt helped than nothing will I am afraid. So just keep throwing laws at the wall. Doubt any will stick.
Dont take his bait. He is just slinging chum seeing if you will trip yourself up.
Generalization statements like this one mean nothing
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 1,647
Quote
What's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
Now here is a coherent statement
Make yourself feel better?
Yep, just keep "generalizing" cause that will help you feel you have made your point.
Come on, you can do better
"Criminals will always get guns" is simply an excuse for doing f*ck-all about the gun crime problem in the USA.
Cop out = excuse.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 18
QuoteQuote
What's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
Now here is a coherent statement
Make yourself feel better?
Yep, just keep "generalizing" cause that will help you feel you have made your point.
Come on, you can do better
"Criminals will always get guns" is simply an excuse for doing f*ck-all about the gun crime problem in the USA.
Cop out = excuse.
Aahhh, OK
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteMEGA COP OUT.
Mega cop out? I guess I should take your lead and just throw out some one line zingers. At least I tried to make a point that you just wont accept. So you dont agree with that criminals will always get guns? How do you stop them? Are you gonna go to I-94 off of Randolph Ave. and walk the street telling the thugs to turn them in?QuoteIf YOU can't or won't be responsible for the security of your own weapon, you should NOT have one.
Who are you to determine if I am responsible or not? They are in my home, locked up, and I lock my doors. If someone steals them you want me to be help responsible? How about nail the SOB who stole them?
If you are responsible then you have nothing to worry about in my proposal
Quote
QuoteWhat's the sacrifice of a few thousand gun victims a year compared to your convenience, after all?
If thousands of laws on the books already hasnt helped than nothing will I am afraid. So just keep throwing laws at the wall. Doubt any will stick.
You could actually try reading my proposal before you start whining about it. (Novel idea, isn't it) You might get it right if you read it first.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteCop out = excuse.
And making a bunch of new laws and going after the innocent just so you can say you tried to do something and make yourself feel better wont help either.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
QuoteYou could actually try reading my proposal before you start whining about it. (Novel idea, isn't it) You might get it right if you read it first.
I did read it and I think it sucks!
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteCop out = excuse.
And making a bunch of new laws and going after the innocent just so you can say you tried to do something and make yourself feel better wont help either.
YOU COULD TRY READING WHAT I WROTE INSTEAD OF MAKING CRAP UP.
If you'd done that initially you wouldn't have posted some of your silly responses.
www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3040141#3040141
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 1,647
QuoteQuoteYou could actually try reading my proposal before you start whining about it. (Novel idea, isn't it) You might get it right if you read it first.
I did read it
Your responses prove otherwise.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Most of them sure as hell are not going to go to a gun store and but it the legal way. So how can I stop someone from buying one illegally? I dont have an answer.
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