Advice needed. CCW course

[NelKel 0]

Hi all, I recently signed up for a CCW course at the local shooting range. I know it a choice of personal preference but which compact gun would you prefer?
I'm considering the Springfield's XD 3" subcompact.
I can not decide between the 9mm or the .40 though.
Which one would you prefer?

Thanks

[AWL71 0]

Opinions will vary greatly. I like both the 9mm and .40 caliber cartridge. Both are adequate for personal protection. Shoot them both and go with the one you feel comfortable with. Try out a Glock as well. A Glock 26 or 27 is a great Concealed Carry pistol. Since I have big hands my Concealed Carry is a Glock 23 in. 40 caliber.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[NelKel 0]

Thanks, I have handled the Glock in stores and also have big hands. My concern was what to do with my pinkie finger. Also the XD has a safety on the handle, sorta like the old 1911 Colt. The Glock scares me because it has none. I would be afraid it would discharge accidently.
Example: Lets say my wife is carrying and starts digging in her purse for (I don't know) an ink pen and bang!
I do think that the Glocks are fine guns and would like to have one, but in a full size frame, to be holsted on the waist band.
The reason I am looking at the XD is because I recently purchased the .45 tactical in a 5", and like the feel of the gun. The Glock .45 has a wider handle and was less comfortable to grip.
Thanks again.

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Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[AWL71 0]

Many people have the same concern about the Glock and no safety. It will not go off unless the trigger is pulled and it takes 5.5 lbs of pressure to do that so it would be hard to do it accidentaly. The Glock has safties but they are internal as opposed to external.

I like a Glock as a carry gun because if you had to draw the pistol on someone it is ready to fire. You don't have to think whether or not you turned the safety off.

I have also shot the Springfield's and I was impressed with them. I have been a Glock guy for years so I am biased. You will be in good shape either way. No matter what gun the most important thing is making sure to train and then train some more.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[warpedskydiver 0]

9mm all the way, there is nothing a .40cal s&w can do for you that a 9mm cannot.

BTW 9mm even penetrates car doors more effectively

Use good ammo, and it does not matter if you use a howitzer if you do not hit your intended target.

Glocks are good, Sigs are better

the only thing better about a Glock is the weight savings.

[AWL71 0]

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9mm all the way, there is nothing a .40cal s&w can do for you that a 9mm cannot.

BTW 9mm even penetrates car doors more effectively

Use good ammo, and it does not matter if you use a howitzer if you do not hit your intended target.

Glocks are good, Sigs are better

the only thing better about a Glock is the weight savings.

You'll get no arguement from me. I have 2 Sigs and I am quite fond of them, a 220 and 226. One reason I really like Glocks is the fact they are so easy to work on. With one tool you can take apart the whole pistol. Hours of fun.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Hi all, I recently signed up for a CCW course at the local shooting range. I know it a choice of personal preference but which compact gun would you prefer?
I'm considering the Springfield's XD 3" subcompact.
I can not decide between the 9mm or the .40 though.
Which one would you prefer?

Thanks

Keltec P3AT .380. A bigger more powerful gun won't do you any good if you want to leave it at home. Not as much fun on targets but you should have other toys for that. I like my Para Ordnance P16-40 which is a full-sized 1911 with 18 rounds of .40 S&W in its fat belly.

[Nightingale 0]

I'm currently considering a HK USP Compact 9mm or .40, or one of the Glock compacts (19 and 27, I think). I'll probably go with the 9mm, just because it's cheaper to practice with.

The Glock has several safeties, it just doesn't have a manual safety switch, which has been a little hard for me to get over, but unless the trigger is pulled, a glock will not fire. A glock will not discharge accidentally unless you are doing something dumb with your finger on the trigger, and then it's not really an "accidental discharge", is it?

[warpedskydiver 0]

[email]

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I'm currently considering a HK USP Compact 9mm or .40, or one of the Glock compacts (19 and 27, I think). I'll probably go with the 9mm, just because it's cheaper to practice with.

The Glock has several safeties, it just doesn't have a manual safety switch, which has been a little hard for me to get over, but unless the trigger is pulled, a glock will not fire. A glock will not discharge accidentally unless you are doing something dumb with your finger on the trigger, and then it's not really an "accidental discharge", is it?

No it's a ND then
An AD is more like having it discharge due to a bad safety or a malfunction.

I hope that helps

Glocks are probably the number one weapon in terms of cops shooting themselves in the leg.

Finger in the trigger guard and try to holster.

[NelKel 0]

HI, I just Googled the H&K USP compact, Wikipedia article was good, also looked at the websight for H&K,
seems to be a fine gun.

Are you considering the H&K because it has a manual decock safety lever?

thanks

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Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[Nightingale 0]

That's part of it, and the other part is that it just fits my hand really, really well. The only down side is that it's a bit on the expensive side.

[NelKel 0]

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P3AT[/URL]

Thanks, I never really considered a .380
I did however consider the S&W .38 snub-nose hammerless revolver for a fanny pack.

I think I want to stay in the auto category.
thanks,

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[AWL71 0]

Check summitgunbroker.com. They have really good prices on pistols. They have a good deal on HKs right now. I am in no way connected to this site but I have bought from them before and they are good people to deal with. Just an FYI.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P3AT[/URL]

Thanks, I never really considered a .380
I did however consider the S&W .38 snub-nose hammerless revolver for a fanny pack.

I think I want to stay in the auto category.
thanks,

Keep in mind you are talking about a catridge with 200 ft lbs of energy

.380acp will work, but I would rather use a 9mm by far.

[ExAFO 0]

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[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P3AT[/URL]

Thanks, I never really considered a .380
I did however consider the S&W .38 snub-nose hammerless revolver for a fanny pack.

I think I want to stay in the auto category.
thanks,

I demo'ed the P3AT. It's a complete piece of shit. The action felt horrible. The workmanship sucks, it's poorly balanced, and the materials feel K-Mart cheap.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[AWL71 0]

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[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P3AT[/URL]

Thanks, I never really considered a .380
I did however consider the S&W .38 snub-nose hammerless revolver for a fanny pack.

I think I want to stay in the auto category.
thanks,

I demo'ed the P3AT. It's a complete piece of shit. The action felt horrible. The workmanship sucks, it's poorly balanced, and the materials feel K-Mart cheap.

I would agree with that assessment. I would not trust my life with one.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[ExAFO 0]

If you want a good concealed carry, consider a Walther PPK in 7.65mm or .380 ACP.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Many people have the same concern about the Glock and no safety. It will not go off unless the trigger is pulled and it takes 5.5 lbs of pressure to do that so it would be hard to do it accidentaly. The Glock has safties but they are internal as opposed to external.

that 5.5lbs is still the single action pull, isn't it?

I prefer the Sigs for mostly personal comfort reasons, but I also like that it has the decocker that can put it back into DA for the first shot.

Though if CA ever allowed carry (or I moved), I'd carry the HK P7 with the grip safety.

[Clownburner 0]

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Many people have the same concern about the Glock and no safety. It will not go off unless the trigger is pulled and it takes 5.5 lbs of pressure to do that so it would be hard to do it accidentaly. The Glock has safties but they are internal as opposed to external.

that 5.5lbs is still the single action pull, isn't it?

I prefer the Sigs for mostly personal comfort reasons, but I also like that it has the decocker that can put it back into DA for the first shot.

Though if CA ever allowed carry (or I moved), I'd carry the HK P7 with the grip safety.

Glocks (and Springfield XD, for that matter) don't have a single-action pull - or a double-action, as they have no hammer. They're striker-fired. The advantage (or disadvantage) is that the trigger pull never changes from first shot to last. People who are used to revolvers and rely on a super-heavy first pull of the trigger for safety might be more comfortable with the DA/SA pistols (SIG, HK, Beretta), or a DAO-version of the same.

OTOH, people with weak hands (like some girls I know) can barely pull a DA trigger, and probably couldn't count on where that first shot is going. Something with a lighter (and consistent) trigger pull (like the Glock, XD, Steyr, or HK USP with the LEM trigger) is a better choice for them.

The other side of the coin is that pistols like the Glock and Springfield XD have no 'manual' safety that you have to remember to take off when the feces hits the fan - I call 'em "PHD guns" (short for 'Pull here, dummy'). You point them and pull the trigger and they work.

However, NO gun should ever be carried without a proper holster that COVERS the trigger. If you have one, and you use it responsibly, Glocks are as safe as any other gun.

Yes, cops shoot themselves in the leg with Glocks - they PUT THEIR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER and then try to put the gun in the holster. That's a holdover from old revolver holsters that left the trigger exposed. But, if they have their finger on the trigger, it's not really the gun's fault, now is it? Machines do what you tell them to do, not what you MEANT to tell them to do. Don't rely on ANY mechanical safety - use the safety between your ears.

Go to a shooting range and start trying them out for yourself. If you're going to carry concealed, you're going to need a lot of practice to do it safely.

As to the original question, 9mm vs. 40, it's been debated to death. There's no one perfect answer. All things being equal, a hit with a 9mm is better than a miss with a .40, but bigger holes are always better. The police and sheriff here all use .40, so that's my first choice, though I do have a 9mm as well for when .40 is just too big. Either will work fine if you can hit your target, so pick the one you shoot better and then practice practice practice.

PS: There are places in California where you can carry. http://www.calccw.com

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Nightingale 0]

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OTOH, people with weak hands (like some girls I know) can barely pull a DA trigger, and probably couldn't count on where that first shot is going. Something with a lighter (and consistent) trigger pull (like the Glock, XD, Steyr, or HK USP with the LEM trigger) is a better choice for them.

I'd be annoyed with you for the girls comment, except it's true. I invariably miss my target with my first shot from a double action trigger, just because the trigger pull is so hard I end up using my whole hand to pull it, which pulls the gun off target. Luckily, HK has the LEM option that gives a consistent trigger pull that isn't as hard as the double action, and Glock is consistent too.

[airtwardo 7]

I have handled the Glock in stores and also have big hands. My concern was what to do with my pinkie finger.

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[skycop 0]

BTW 9mm even penetrates car doors more effectively
***

I could'nt disagree more, we had Corbon 119 grain 9mm +P+ NOT penetrate a 1990 Plymouth Acclaim's door.
Five rounds hit the door and not one penetrated, hence saving some badguys who had shot at our guys.

The .40cal is a better round, it has the punch (almost) of a .45, but the lighter qualities of 9mm.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

They're striker-fired. The advantage (or disadvantage) is that the trigger pull never changes from first shot to last.
***

Glock has a longer pull on the first shot however, one can do a "trigger reset" and have a quasi-single action trigger pull on the rest. Glocks are "safe action" pistols. There is a trigger set called the "New York" trigger pull where trigger reset cannot be done. I believe they have to be special ordered, the NYPD made had this feature for their initial Glock order many years ago for what ever reason.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[warpedskydiver 0]

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BTW 9mm even penetrates car doors more effectively
***

I could'nt disagree more, we had Corbon 119 grain 9mm +P+ NOT penetrate a 1990 Plymouth Acclaim's door.
Five rounds hit the door and not one penetrated, hence saving some badguys who had shot at our guys.

The .40cal is a better round, it has the punch (almost) of a .45, but the lighter qualities of 9mm.

I have seen otherwise, I will say that there are several variables including angle and distance.

I can show you a thorough study that was performed, as well and it proved 9mm more effective, and it was not the result the study was looking for

Heck we went to a junkyard and shot alot of cars in the door and even .45acp did not do as well.

Believe me we were suprised.

If you like I will send you a link to the study.

Anyway you look at it if you cannot hit and kill a target of your choice with a 9mm, a .45acp will never help you.

[skycop 0]

Ball ammo yes, semi-jacketed hollow points no. Corbon is the hottest commercial 9mm available, around 1300fps from a Glock 19.
The shots I'm talking about were at 90' to 45' from about 8 yards, the window was down. No one was more suprised than us

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"