Pushing some one during shoplifting is a felony charge

[Armour666 0]

Now the 3 strikes law make sense for putting the right people away for a long time but some times it seams to get used for the wrong reason.

Now this guy is not exactly a model citizen but taking a doughnut and then pushing some one becomes a felony charge “Farmington Police Chief Rick Baker said the two incidents taken separately equalled two misdemeanours: shoplifting and minor third-degree assault. Together, they make for second-degree robbery, a class B felony, defined in state law as forcibly stealing property. The amount of force and the amount of property does not matter.” seams a bit much.

His past felony charges were torching a car to collect insurance and possessing methamphetamine ingredients. And now this. While there are many other more violent cases that get minimal sentences is it really worth the cost and effort on some one like this to get the time away? Doesn’t seam there is much common sense in this when there are far more better cases to go after or is this just another case of a local prosecutor taking things on and making it a bigger show then it needs to be especially considering the size of the town.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/2F37838AFD546C9A8625736D000B589F?OpenDocument

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[quade 3]

It's not exactly Les Miserables; is it?

Did you know it's possible to go an entire lifetime without having one strike?

True story!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyguy78 0]

Lock his ass up! Better yet, make these guys that take from society give back. Nothing like hard labor to rehabilitate. If shoplifting and assult are not big deals in your eyes, I take it you have never had a crime commited against you.

There is a fine line between being a hopeless romantic and a stalker

[billvon 2,464]

>If shoplifting and assult are not big deals in your eyes, I take it you have
>never had a crime commited against you.

And if you think pushing someone equates to assault, you've probably never been assaulted.

[Richards 0]

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>If shoplifting and assult are not big deals in your eyes, I take it you have
>never had a crime commited against you.

And if you think pushing someone equates to assault, you've probably never been assaulted.

It's usually a prelude to something bigger. It is a fair charge even though there were no injuries.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Armour666 0]

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Lock his ass up! Better yet, make these guys that take from society give back. Nothing like hard labor to rehabilitate. If shoplifting and assult are not big deals in your eyes, I take it you have never had a crime commited against you.

I didn't say he didn't deserve some justice comming his way but to be list that as a felony and 3 strikes witch would give him a longer jail time then most firts time murder offences so you think it work that much effort and cost for his sorry ass?

I have had a crimes commited against me and if I called the cops every time I have been pushed I would still be giving reports. There is a difference between a push and having some one smash one to the bridge of your nose.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Richards 0]

The guys sounds like a career scumbag. He has had plenty of chances. I am not suggesting that they do anything cruel to him, just put him away .....for good. Society is better off without him.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[billvon 2,464]

>It's usually a prelude to something bigger.

It may well be - but "preludes" are not (and should not be) crimes. You should punish people for what they do, not what they might do.

[rehmwa 2]

It's really doesn't matter if he stole the donut - what matters is what he was thinking and the 'why' he stole that matters. It could indicate some seriously deep seeded societal needs that should be addressed and funded. We need to ensure that we are seriously policing this guy's THOUGHTS.

1 - by stealing something as inconsequential as a donut, he's obviously demonstrating a lack of respect for another's property. This is neither good nor bad, but depends on the context:
a - foremost - what are the genders and races of each involved - this needs to be run through a Blame/Guilt matrix to determine if the donut ACTUALLY belonged to the gentleman rather than the store owner - pro-rate for those with mixed heritage
b - does the store owner provide health insurance for the employee that was (allegedly) backfisted in the chest - in fact, if the store owner makes more the $15000, AND the employee makes less than 'about' $82000, then the store owner, as an evil and RICH small businessman might actually be responsible for BOTH the assault AND the counseling for the employee - in addition to his inate responsibility to go to the criminal's house and repair his roof (to OSHA standards).

now that the actual case of whether stealing the donut was in a net positive or negative effect on the social fabric (per the above analysis), we move on:


2 - was the accused hungry, and did he have access to free government-based food supply programs?
a - clearly in regions where no food is supplied, it's the business owner's responsibility (as an evil and RICH capitalist) to provide free, fresh and healthy food (with sufficient vegetarian options) in an OSHA approved bin in the store's front - along with suggestion cards to respond to flavor and personal requests by those participating. Of course the bins need to be accessible by those of varying height, handicap conditions, and different levels of intoxication or drug addlement.
b - where (OSHA and FDA) approved bins are not in 'climate friendly' zone, the federal government can provide assistance (via solar panel tax credits) for the (evil and RICH) store owner to construct "Care" shelters for the locals to come eat their (free, and healthy) food stipends.

so in this case - if federally required "social" food programs are not in place per (OSHA and FDA) standards (with Homeland Security protection personnel stationed), then taking the donut is ALSO in the right of the accused.

3 - finally, the (EVIL and RICH) store owner had Donuts in an accessible location, further, the fact he had (exploited) employees monitoring the customers, clearly indicates a "set up". The accused could not help himself, the assumption of guilt was there,
a - unhealthy food is a clear indication that the store owner is trying to kill off successful shoplifters - (planning and intent both present for the murderous intent - murder by long term cholesteral poisoning) - or, at best, the entrapment of clumsy shoplifters
b - and the monitoring clearly shows a violation of privacy for the accused

so the accused is definitely being denied his clear CONSTITUTIONAL rights to presumption of innocence, right to privacy, and right to blithely take his RIGHTFUL donut allocation from the (RICH and EVIL) small businessman



CONCLUSION: the store owner obviously reads too many Ross Perot pamplets and should be stripped of all income, and made to listen to repeating videotape of Al Franken radio editorials until he apologizes to random people.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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>It's usually a prelude to something bigger.

It may well be - but "preludes" are not (and should not be) crimes. You should punish people for what they do, not what they might do.

don't forget - also for what they are thinking.

or at least, what we presume they are "probably" thinking

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Richards 0]

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>It's usually a prelude to something bigger.

It may well be - but "preludes" are not (and should not be) crimes. You should punish people for what they do, not what they might do.

No, but shoving is still an assault (even if there is no injury). It is the use of force against another person.

If this guy was a one time offender who just snapped then I might have some sympathy but guys like this never seem to change (yes I realize that there are exceptions). Three strikes sounds pretty fair. It gives a person 3 chances and as someone previously pointed out many can go an entire lifetime without a single strike. If this guy still can't figure out that he cannot steal and use force to get what he wants then he does not belong in society. I am not suggesting cruelty, I am fine with him being fed well there but if he gets back out he will continue to re-offend, so he should be put away.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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don't forget - also for what they are thinking.

or at least, what we presume they are "probably" thinking

The issue is that even with multiple convictions this guy cannot respect other peoples property or their right to not be assaulted (and yes shoving is assault). By doing so he also expressed a willingness to use force (threat) to commit the crime of theft so that makes it robbery by force (not sure what the actual legal term is for it). He has had more than enough fair chances, I think society could use a very long break from this guy.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[billvon 2,464]

>don't forget - also for what they are thinking.

True. Did he dislike the sort of donut he stole? If so, it's probably a donut hate crime.

[rehmwa 2]

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>don't forget - also for what they are thinking.

True. Did he dislike the sort of donut he stole? If so, it's probably a donut hate crime.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Armour666 0]

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don't forget - also for what they are thinking.

or at least, what we presume they are "probably" thinking

The issue is that even with multiple convictions this guy cannot respect other peoples property or their right to not be assaulted (and yes shoving is assault). By doing so he also expressed a willingness to use force (threat) to commit the crime of theft so that makes it robbery by force (not sure what the actual legal term is for it). He has had more than enough fair chances, I think society could use a very long break from this guy.

I agree but is 30 - to live a valid sentence for this because of the three strikes law? The average sentence for murder is 20 years I think that a huge descrepencey and kinda shows the inbalance of what we put a value on a human life compared to otehr crimes comited.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Richards 0]

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I agree but is 30 - to live a valid sentence for this because of the three strikes law? The average sentence for murder is 20 years I think that a huge descrepencey and kinda shows the inbalance of what we put a value on a human life compared to otehr crimes comited.

[kallend 1,672]

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>If shoplifting and assult are not big deals in your eyes, I take it you have
>never had a crime commited against you.

And if you think pushing someone equates to assault, you've probably never been assaulted.

I guess I saw a whole lot of assaulting going on getting off the plane this morning on my way home from POPS.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[akarunway 1]

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It's not exactly Les Miserables; is it?

Did you know it's possible to go an entire lifetime without having one strike?

True story!

I like this one better.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Charri%C3%A8re

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[quade 3]

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I like this one better.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Charri%C3%A8re

Yeah, maybe, but I think the other one is perhaps more relevant here. I mean, it's not like the guy stealing the donut was trying to feed his starving kid . . . he was just a jackass that didn't want to pay for a donut.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[livendive 8]

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I agree but is 30 - to live a valid sentence for this because of the three strikes law? The average sentence for murder is 20 years I think that a huge descrepencey and kinda shows the inbalance of what we put a value on a human life compared to otehr crimes comited.

He was stealing a donut. He should have known the local constabulary would view that as only half a notch below cop killer.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,464]

>I guess I saw a whole lot of assaulting going on getting off the plane
>this morning on my way home from POPS.

Yeah, but they didn't have books or flashing lights - and they weren't eating any donuts.

[Armour666 0]

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I agree but is 30 - to live a valid sentence for this because of the three strikes law? The average sentence for murder is 20 years I think that a huge descrepencey and kinda shows the inbalance of what we put a value on a human life compared to other crimes comited.

The solution to that disparity is not to weaken the sentence for 3 strikes violations but to increase the sentence for murder.

As for giving this guy life, don't most life sentences give you the option of paroling after 25ish for good behaviour?

I could be wrong, I don't know for sure but it just seems that some individuals are irredeemably and unremorsefully criminal. If we are willing to give this guy healthy food while he is put away and a roof over his head (better than most homeless who have committed no crime have it) then maybe it's for the best. He will feel at home amongst like minded individuals, will want for nothing and we will not have to worry about what he is up to anymore.

Alternately I am open to suggestions as to how you would deal with habitual criminals who just never seem to change.

[champu 1]

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I could be wrong, I don't know for sure but it just seems that some individuals are irredeemably and unremorsefully criminal.

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...has been arrested more than a dozen times: for being drunk, for shoplifting, for missed court dates, for marijuana possession. He spent most of the 1990s and a stretch from 2000 to 2004 in state prison for the felonies of torching a car to collect insurance and possessing methamphetamine ingredients.

This guy is a fuck up, not a hardened criminal. I'd rather save real-estate in prisons for those that are more grave threats to society. As for what to do with people like this? I really don't know, but I'm sure there's a well-intentioned and expensive social program that could fail miserably at helping them out.

[Richards 0]

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Yes I agree the disparity would be to increase the time for murder but the one I have problems with it the ability to string two different acts in to one to turn it in to a Felony. Don't get me wrong I'm not going to be heart broken to see this guy serve time but I do have a problem with is how it turned in to a Felony charge . Stopping repeat offenders is another problem they need to be given skills and something to get them self out of the cycle. Some do well others do not. How that not so easy it needs to be a case by case.

[rehmwa 2]

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He is irrideemable.

what if he pushes you while trying to take your bag of peanuts at a sports event where you were wearing the visiting teams colors?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants