"Your Papers, Please", Ohio Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Receipt at Circuit City

[Guest]

I thought this story on the Tech-Store-Door-Nazi theme this was interesting, as it's something I've dealt with at CompUSA.

On the way out the door, a rent-a-cop demands to see your receipt. I always refuse, just out of principle, and if they push the issue, I challenge them to have me arrested.

They don't have a single legal leg to stand on (and any fool knows that the lion's share of retail theft is from the inside, anyway). Why they would risk a lawsuit just for some techno-junk is beyond me.

The CompUSA franchise near my home did away with the Door Nazi years ago. Guess this Circuit City in Ohio hasn't heard the news: treating their customers as criminals isn't good for business.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[airdvr 200]

Quote

They don't have a single legal leg to stand on (and any fool knows that the lion's share of retail theft is from the inside, anyway). Why they would risk a lawsuit just for some techno-junk is beyond me.

It's their store thay can do what they want to. They don't need a law while you're still inside. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem showing their reciept if asked. Do you think they do this to be pricks? They have a right to protect themselves.

Me: “I’m required by law to state that my name is Michael Righi, but I do not have to provide you with my driver’s license since I am not operating a vehicle.”
Officer Arroyo: “Give me your driver’s license or I will place you under arrest.”
Me: “My name is Michael Righi. I am not willing to provide you with my driver’s license.”
Officer Arroyo: “Turn around and up against the wall.”

I think there's a law somewhere that say you have to show proof of indentity when asked by police. Regardless, this guy was just looking for a reason to be beligerent. I'll be interested to see what happens with his case.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

It's their store thay can do what they want to. They don't need a law while you're still inside. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem showing their reciept if asked. Do you think they do this to be pricks? They have a right to protect themselves.

He asked them if they are accusing him of stealing things. They told him no they were not accusing him. Watch what a store does when you show that reciept, they write the cashiers name down because the cashier failed to dis-engage the security device. They have a right to protect themselves, once the person leaves the store they have no right to detain him. They can call the cops, they cant touch the person, restrain or attempt to stop that person physically. Not only did the store employee not have a right to search a man who he stated was not accused of possible theft from the store, but he also stood in front of the car, and in essence "restrained" un-lawfully. At least thats how I see it. I have at times not shown the reciept when they ask because I shove it in my purse and if I am in a hurry I wont stop. Ive never been chased down, nor restrained.

Quote

I think there's a law somewhere that say you have to show proof of indentity when asked by police. Regardless, this guy was just looking for a reason to be beligerent. I'll be interested to see what happens with his case.

He quoted the law that states otherwise. I still think its a stupid thing to sue for, but his rights seem to have been infringed on according to the laws.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[willard 0]

Sounds like a smart-assed little runt just looking to cause trouble. What is so hard about showing a receipt?

Quote

They don't have a single legal leg to stand on (and any fool knows that the lion's share of retail theft is from the inside, anyway). Why they would risk a lawsuit just for some techno-junk is beyond me.

Circuit City doesn't need a leg to stand on. The child is not charged with shoplifting or anything to do with the store. He is charged with obstructing an officer in the performance of his duty (by refusing to produce an ID).

Having a person check for a receipt and compare it to the contents of their bag is the last chance for a store to prevent shoplifting. As I see it there is nothing wrong with that.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I think there's a law somewhere that say you have to show proof of indentity when asked by police. I'll be interested to see what happens with his case.

Actually per Ohio state law Title 29 Chapter 2921.29 (C) "Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed," (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29). Righi's blog points to the Ohio Revised Code.

I think I would characterize Righi as strong-willed, which can be a very good thing, e.g., "Michael Amor Righi started his own business when he was 8 years old, bought his first house at 19 and, now 25, is owner of a half-million dollar information technology training and computer consulting business based in his Downtown (Pittsburgh) loft."
"'I'm looking forward to (being a millionaire), but I'm more interested in helping Pittsburgh and seeing Pittsburgh do well,' he said. 'My biggest hobby is the city of Pittsburgh.'" http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/multimedia/s_471949.html

It's not the proverbial battle in which I would chose to invest my time or money, but I'm glad someone is.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[normiss 643]

the constant forfeiture of our rights will eventually lead to us having none.

the fucking register is 15 feet from the door, are you such a good cop that you missed me standing in line to pay for these items for the last 10 minutes?

I too hate the implication that we have stolen something and have to prove innocence to leave the store.

The driver license comparison is moot, the cop isn't accusing me of stealing my car.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

The child is not charged with shoplifting or anything to do with the store. He is charged with obstructing an officer in the performance of his duty (by refusing to produce an ID).

I just read where by law, you must be witnessed stealing by the loss pervention people to warrent a search ... is that right?

If so , I think the dad should sue, he was detained unlawfully by the circuit city people

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[jakee 1,280]

Quote

He is charged with obstructing an officer in the performance of his duty (by refusing to produce an ID).

Do you feel that citizens should be obligated to carry and produce ID cards whenever a policeman asks for it?

Are you in favour of universal ID cards?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,679]

I do not patronize stores that treat me like a criminal.



Three cheers for Righi for refusing to bullied.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

I do not patronize stores that treat me like a criminal.



Three cheers for Righi for refusing to bullied.

\


Ditto.

[kallend 1,679]

Quote

Quote

They don't have a single legal leg to stand on (and any fool knows that the lion's share of retail theft is from the inside, anyway). Why they would risk a lawsuit just for some techno-junk is beyond me.

It's their store thay can do what they want to. They don't need a law while you're still inside. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem showing their reciept if asked. Do you think they do this to be pricks? They have a right to protect themselves.

.

The bag and its contents were his personal property the instant he handed over the money.

Should he have the right to inspect Circuit City's cash registers because they contain cash that was his a few moments before?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jlmiracle 7]

I don't understand what the big deal is for the guy to show is receipt.

If it was such a problem and inconvenience to show the receipt then he should have gone to customer service and returned it, then he could go purchase it from a store that won't ask for a receipt.

When I shop at Costco, you have to show a receipt on the way out the door. No big deal. I've never ever seen anyone have a fit and refuse to show their receipt at the door. Why do you suppose that is? Maturity might have something to do with it.

Some people are just looking to cause trouble.


j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[normiss 643]

I've always politely declined to show my receipt at Costco without an issue.

Again, the "I have nothing to hide so what's the big deal" perspective simply assists in the erosion of our rights.

I don't shop where I am presumed a criminal. It's not my fault they cannot control their loses.

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

I've always politely declined to show my receipt at Costco without an issue.

Again, the "I have nothing to hide so what's the big deal" perspective simply assists in the erosion of our rights.

I don't shop where I am presumed a criminal. It's not my fault they cannot control their loses.

Then YOU can pay higher prices when people start walking out without paying.

With Costco, they "receipt" everyone so they aren't profiling. It prevents a much bigger issue.

What is the big deal about showing your receipt? Why fight this battle when there are so many bigger things to focus on. People are hungry, homeless, unemployed, abused, etc. Yet the you choose this battle.

Pitty.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[base428 1]

Do you HAVE to show your receipt? Or are you the passive-type of person who believes everything you're told?

Our rights are eroding every day. You should THANK Michael Righi, me, and everyone else who doesn't put up with nazi-rules like these.

PS. Read this......http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1909971#1909971

Quote

When I shop at Costco, you have to show a receipt on the way out the door.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[airdvr 200]

One other thing this does is prevent the cashier from allowing someone to walk out with merchandise they haven't paid for. I can see where that would be a big concern for the store.

For me, it's no big deal. I'm having a hard time understanding why it is for others. You can always vote with your feet...meaning if you don't like their policy don't shop there.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[willard 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

They don't have a single legal leg to stand on (and any fool knows that the lion's share of retail theft is from the inside, anyway). Why they would risk a lawsuit just for some techno-junk is beyond me.

It's their store thay can do what they want to. They don't need a law while you're still inside. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem showing their reciept if asked. Do you think they do this to be pricks? They have a right to protect themselves.

.

The bag and its contents were his personal property the instant he handed over the money.

Should he have the right to inspect Circuit City's cash registers because they contain cash that was his a few moments before?

As I asked, Is it so hard to show the receipt he acquired moments before??? If you put it in your wallet/purse then say so and ask if it is really necessary. And no, the store had no right to prevent him from leaving.
When I pay for goods at a store there is no law that says I have to hand my money to the clerk. I could toss it on the counter or throw it on the floor at their feet and be perfectly within my rights. But it is my sense of respect for people doing their job and my being part of a society that still has a remnant of civility that tends me toward cooperating with others even if I am not legally obliged to do so.
We should all be thankful for people who do things that aren't required of them. Can you imagine what the world would be like if nobody did anything that they weren't expressly required to do?
Again, no, CC had no right to prevent him from driving away. No, he should not have been cited for failing to produce an ID. Yes, things got out of hand. But it all could have been avoided if the kid had just exerted a little energy and showed his flippin' receipt instead of being a smartass.

[crwtom 0]

Quote

the fucking register is 15 feet from the door, are you such a good cop that you missed me standing in line to pay for these items for the last 10 minutes?

hopefully a good enough cop to know that you can slip through an expensive item while paying for a few cheap items as distraction.

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[base428 1]

Would you be OK with a good frisking and the removal of everything from your pockets when you leave Circuit City or Costco? I would guess that most people would highly object to this.

My tolerance level for this type of "guilty until receipt is shown" behavior is apparently a bit less than you. In realizing that we are all different, I hope you can better understand why some of us don't want to stand in line to prove that we paid for something that we already paid for.

Quote

For me, it's no big deal. I'm having a hard time understanding why it is for others.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

I'm having a hard time understanding why it is for others. You can always vote with your feet...meaning if you don't like their policy don't shop there.

Exactly, but apparently these other people believe they are entitled to shop there under their terms, not the stores.

This is a sue happy society that would rather tie up the legal system with stupid shit like this then fight a real battle. One that would actually make a difference. In fact, I think I will shop at Circuit City now even though the Best Buy is much closer.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[normiss 643]

we all pay higher retail prices for people that choose to walk out without paying...I simply chose to not prove that I didn't.
I just politely say "no thank you" as I continue my exit. I don't see the two as being directly related.

Would you openly allow the police to come into your home and require proof that all the contents are indeed paid for by you?

I don't understand how our freedoms are NOT the bigger battle.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

Exactly, but apparently these other people believe they are entitled to shop there under their terms, not the stores

So even if the store is breaking the law you think its okay?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[freethefly 6]

If you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Now, kindly assume the position and please accept this tracking device as a token of our appreciation

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

I don't understand how our freedoms are NOT the bigger battle.

You know, you are right, Child abuse, homelessness, aids, cancer, etc. are much much less important than having to not show your receipt leaving a store you do not own, a store that has the right to refuse service to you.


j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

Quote

Exactly, but apparently these other people believe they are entitled to shop there under their terms, not the stores

So even if the store is breaking the law you think its okay?

You don't have to shop there. Now if someone is holding a gun to your head and making you shop there, then you have something to truely bitch about. If you don't like a particular stores policies go somewhere else. It's that simple.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.