Jack Valenti died!

[dorbie 0]

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all I can say is that I'm saddened to see that people I respect would advocate for theft from creatives. It's unfortunate you feel it's OK to steal from me because my work product is intellectual, and someone else' work product is physical.

Nobody has advocated that. Your concern over copyright violations does not mean society should let your trade organizations impose changes in the laws that cause widespread damage to people just because they're not on your radar, to name just one issue. The laws aren't even effective but we've covered that already.

[Thanatos340 1]

The big difference here is when Banana Republic makes a shirt..

First they pay a Designer to design the shirt.. Then they pay a Company to manufacture the shirt, then they pay others to distribute the shirt. (And there is alot more that goes into this). They calculate how many shirts they expect to sell and set a price for the shirt. They hope to exceed the number of shirts sold to the point they make Profit. Profit is NOT evil. It is why they made the investment to begin with.

With software and Music and Movies.. It is a Similar process only there is no Tangible item to sell. What is sold is a License/Limited right to use the Product. The person selling the intellectual product completely has the RIGHT (Its their product) to say how/when/where that intellectual property can be used by the person buying the right to use it. The customer can either choose to buy it (and accept the terms it is offered) or not. It is their choice.
If they don’t like the terms.. DONT BUY IT!!

Any responsible company will look for any and all way they can to protect their property.

I sell Maintenance and Engineering Software for a living. We have put hundreds of thousands of dollars into developing that product every year. The business model we choose was to "License" the software by concurrent users. We hope to make a profit (More than it cost us to produce the software) off that. We give a Key (Sitekey) to each customer that limits how they can use the software. If someone were to break that Key and distribute it in any way, My Company would go out of business or at a minimum sufferer financially.

To me, This is the same as DRM. The Record companies say for this price you get this (and only this). They take steps to try to enforce those rules. This pisses some people off. Fuck em. If they don’t like the terms, DONT BUY IT!!

[kallend 1,635]

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One more time for the really slow...

What Rights have you been deprived of??

I have been deprived of my ability to exercise my right under US copyright law ("Fair Use") to make a compilation of clips from movies like Point Break for use in my physics class.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,635]

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Wrong, wrong, and wrong....If you follow the link I which was provided to Kallend's response, you'll see exactly how recent changes in the law have made it very much a legal endeavor to circumvent DRM for certain purposes. It's spelled out in plain English, not legalese.

.

Just because it is legal does not mean it is possible without heroic effort, thanks to Valenti and his cronies. They have made what should be a straightforward and simple exercise of rights into a quagmire of geekism.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Thanatos340 1]

You still have that right as guaranteed under 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1).

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1. Audiovisual works included in the educational library of a college or university’s film or media studies department, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of making compilations of portions of those works for educational use in the classroom by media studies or film professors.

What you may now lack is the ability.. But you still have the right.

Contact the copyright holder and ask them for a non-DRM protected copy for your use.

(And BTW.. If you are using "Point Break" to illustrate Physics.. Those students are going to come out worse that GA Tech Engineers.. And I didn’t think that was Possible!!)

[kallend 1,635]

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You still have that right as guaranteed under 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1).

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1. Audiovisual works included in the educational library of a college or university’s film or media studies department, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of making compilations of portions of those works for educational use in the classroom by media studies or film professors.

What you may now lack is the ability.. But you still have the right.

Oh, how HELPFUL that is.

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Contact the copyright holder and ask them for a non-DRM protected copy for your use.

Ha ha, very funny

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(And BTW.. If you are using "Point Break" to illustrate Physics.. Those students are going to come out worse that GA Tech Engineers.. And I didn’t think that was Possible!!)

If you read my first post, you would see that the purpose is to illustrate violations of the laws of physics. Apparently Dorbie is right, you don't read what's posted.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Just because it is legal does not mean it is possible without heroic effort

Kinda like the Heroic effort (and expense) someone went through to produce the thing in the first place.

Sorry you were inconvenienced by their efforts to protect their property.

[kallend 1,635]

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Just because it is legal does not mean it is possible without heroic effort

Kinda like the Heroic effort (and expense) someone went through to produce the thing in the first place.

Sorry you were inconvenienced by their efforts to protect their property.

Not relevant to my rights under the law.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Thanatos340 1]

Come on... I know you are smarter than that.

You still have the RIGHT. No one ever lost any rights as Dobie claimed. In fact you were specifically GIVEN the right to reverse engineer and/or bypass the DRM for your purposes. (A Right you did not have before).

YOU have a right to bypass their protections for certain uses. That doesn’t mean that the copyright holders should drop their pants and bend over for the rest of the world just to accommodate you.

The bottom line is that Copyright holders MUST do whatever they can to protect their property. Anything else is irresponsible.

[pirana 0]

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They copy EVERYTHING over there, from CDs to entire cars.

Really? I wonder what they would want for a copy of a 1965 Cobra. Better yet, a copy of the scratch built replica from Superformance named the Mark III. $60K with Ford Racing engine, $5K more with an engine from Rousch. I'd take one ASAP if they can bring it in at half-price. In British Racing Green please.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[kallend 1,635]

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Come on... I know you are smarter than that.

You still have the RIGHT. No one ever lost any rights as Dobie claimed. In fact you were specifically GIVEN the right to reverse engineer and/or bypass the DRM for your purposes. (A Right you did not have before).

YOU have a right to bypass their protections for certain uses. That doesn’t mean that the copyright holders should drop their pants and bend over for the rest of the world just to accommodate you.

The bottom line is that Copyright holders MUST do whatever they can to protect their property. Anything else is irresponsible.

That's like saying you have a right to bear arms, but you can't have ammunition. It's a meaningless right if it can't be exercised.

Have the control freaks made copying software available to schools and universities? NO.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Thanatos340 1]

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That's like saying you have a right to bear arms, but you can't have ammunition.

I have the Right to Both Fire Arms AND Ammo.. However the manufacturers of those things are not required to GIVE them to me.
In fact resent law (well within the past 20 years resent) has made it much more difficult for me to exercise those rights.. (Waiting periods, Background Checks) But I do still have the right.

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Have the control freaks made copying software available to schools and universities?

NO. But you were given the RIGHT to bypass the protections that they have applied. That doesn’t mean they have to give you the tools to do it.

Are you a Control freak for locking the door to your Home?? NO!! You are just taking reasonable precautions to protect your property.
The Police have a RIGHT to enter your Home under certain conditions.. Did you run around and give every police department a key so they can get in just incase those conditions are ever met and they want to get in??

[kallend 1,635]

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That's like saying you have a right to bear arms, but you can't have ammunition.

I have the Right to Both Fire Arms AND Ammo.. However the manufacturers of those things are not required to GIVE them to me.
In fact resent law (well within the past 20 years resent) has made it much more difficult for me to exercise those rights.. (Waiting periods, Background Checks) But I do still have the right.

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Have the control freaks made copying software available to schools and universities?

NO. But you were given the RIGHT to bypass the protections that they have applied. That doesn’t mean they have to give you the tools to do it.

Are you a Control freak for locking the door to your Home?? NO!! You are just taking reasonable precautions to protect your property.
The Police have a RIGHT to enter your Home under certain conditions.. Did you run around and give every police department a key so they can get in just incase those conditions are ever met and they want to get in??

A right that cannot be exercised is NOT a right.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PLFXpert 0]

I think he's saying it can be excercised, just not easily.

No you can't. Yes, I can. No, you can't. Yes, I can! Yes I caaaaaannnn!

The air we breathe is free. The air between the walls of a condo is not.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Thanatos340 1]

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A right that cannot be exercised is NOT a right.

Not True at all.
We all have MANY rights that we lack the ability to exercise.

In your particular case, DRM made it more difficult for you to exercise your RIGHTS as an educator.. But you did not loose the right. In fact you were specifically granted the "Right" to bypass DRM. That doesn’t mean that the creators are obligated to provide you with the tools to do so.

To use your Example.. I do in fact have the right to Bear Arms But there are MANY restrictions on that right. When, Where and How I can exercise that right. Laws such as the Brady Bill severely limited that right and made it MUCH more difficult for me to exercise that right.. BUT I still have the right.

Same as DRM in regards to you using copy written material in regards to your classroom.

Now back to the original Point I was making.. Directed to Dorbie.. He claims he has had many rights stolen. I once again ask HIM to please state at least one RIGHT that he lost due to Mr. Valenti`s work.

The truth is there not one.

[PLFXpert 0]

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That doesn’t mean that the creators are obligated to provide you with the tools to do so.

I say we put our head's together on this. It will take a lot of time, money & hard work but I'm confident we can reinvent the jimmy for the new millennia! We will be rich! Unless it's easy to replicate. Still, the time, money & effort we spent will all have been worth it to see all the smiling faces.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[BillyVance 34]

I'm surprised it took so long to move this thread to SC. The bickering had been on from the beginning.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[dorbie 0]

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No one ever lost any rights as Dobie claimed.

That has been demonstrated to be absolutely false, but you showed such ignorance at the start of your contribution that you probably didn't realize it. I'm sure this thread has been a useful learning experience for you but now even faced with the reality you're still pretending that you're right. Are you really under the impression that anyone will be misled by your dance?

You STILL ignore the fact (and are probably ignorant of it) that fair use encompassed an array of rights including making copies, not just Kallend's physics tutorial.

I mentioned much earlier in this thread that the DMCA contains a catch 22 but you breezed on by.

I used the term fair use about a half dozen times in direct response to your question but you breezed on by.

Just admit that you had no idea what you were talking about when you jumped into this thread, that you've thoroughly embarrassed yourself and that your insistence that no rights have been lost even in the face of clear explanations is disingenuous window dressing. You're struggling under the delusion that you're wielding a fig leaf, give it up and save yourself further embarrassment.

And it's Dorbie, get it right.

[Thanatos340 1]

I am still waiting to hear what RIGHTS you lost??

Who is dancing here? Why can you answer this one simple question??

I have asked one simple question over and over again and you have completely ignored it or claimed you answered it (You havent).

You pointed out how Educators such a kellend now have more difficulty exercising their rights.. But no where in any of your posts do I see where you mention ANY right that was stolen from YOU.

Please tell me.. What Right was stolen from you??
You have to be specific for ignorant people like me you know.

[dorbie 0]

You still have no clue what fair use encompasses and insist on ignoring the plain English words I have written around that phrase.

I refer you to my previous post, that is all.

You saying I have not answered like a demented parrot does not mean I have not answered numerous times.

[DSE 3]

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Have the control freaks made copying software available to schools and universities? NO.

Yes, it is readily (and commercially) available.
Remember that at the beginning of this thread, you were unaware that you even had the right. Now you know you've been given the right via exemption, howsabout looking around and finding the tools to do the work.
By the way, your comment that it takes "heroic effort" is ridiculous. Copying parts of a movie from VHS is very slow, real-time, and consuming. And you lose quality.
Ripping relevant segments from a DVD takes seconds, minutes if it's a longer passage, and is ridiculously faster. Where are the heroic efforts you speak of? Send me a DVD you want segments compiled from, and I'll email you back a file within the hour of receiving it.
No heroics, just a couple minutes of your time.
Or, go buy the VHS tape and dub it from there. Most hardware devices have TBC so you can ignore Macrovision.
It's easy when you know how. I can teach you in about 5 minutes over the phone.
Don't have the tools? I can point you to where you can get them.
For free.
No heroics required.
Just a moderately slow internet connection with which you can legally download legal software in a 750Kb package.

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[Thanatos340 1]

I give up.

Some people will always think they have "RIGHTS" to things that other people went through great time and expense to create.

[kallend 1,635]

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I give up.

Some people will always think they have "RIGHTS" to things that other people went through great time and expense to create.

As it happens, I do have that right, granted to me by the US Congress.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Thanatos340 1]

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As it happens, I do have that right, granted to me by the US Congress.

So now you agree that you DO in fact still have that right??
That right was NOT stolen from you?

And I believe that DSE has offered to show you how to easily (and Legally) exercise that right.

[kallend 1,635]

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Have the control freaks made copying software available to schools and universities? NO.

Yes, it is readily (and commercially) available.
Remember that at the beginning of this thread, you were unaware that you even had the right. .

No, I have been very well aware of that right since (roughly) 1967. Here is my first post - it makes it very clear.

I would appreciate the free tools of which you write.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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