Canada: Refugee claimant "not gay enough" for asylum

[Andy9o8 0]

http://www.thestar.com/article/179467

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Refugee claimant 'not gay enough'


Feb 08, 2007 04:30 AM
Nicholas Keung
IMMIGRATION/DIVERSITY REPORTER

The city's gay community and the Toronto Youth Cabinet are rising to the defence of a gay runaway from Nicaragua who faces deportation next Tuesday after losing his asylum claim because "he did not have any same-sex relationships."

Alvaro Antonio Orozco based his refugee claim on fears of homophobia and domestic abuse. He said he left Managua in 1998 at age 12 because he was regularly beaten with sticks and whips by an alcoholic father who threatened to "kill any child of his that was homosexual."

After a year hitchhiking through Central America, living off the kindness of strangers, Orozco, now 21, arrived in Texas. He was detained in a group home but left it for Toronto in January 2005, after learning Canada respects gay rights.
"Gay people in Latin America have to act straight to hide their (sexual) identity because people there are Catholic and are very conservative. I was afraid," the stocky construction worker said softly. "The (refugee) judge just didn't think I was gay enough and I didn't qualify to be gay."

Adjudicator Deborah Lamont, who conducted the Oct. 6, 2005, hearing from Calgary via videoconference, took issue with his lack of same-sex relationships during his six years in the U.S.

"I determined on a balance of probabilities the claimant did not pursue same-sex relationships in whatever capacity ... because he is not a homosexual," she wrote in her decision.

Lawyer El-Farouk Khaki said his client had to hide his orientation from the conservative church people who helped him.

"Did (Lamont) expect all gay teens to be sexually active at 14, 15, 16 years old? That's horrid," said Khaki, who will file a motion in federal court tomorrow to stay the removal. "In my view, the refugee board has failed to recognize that my client is a victim of violence, a victim of abuse. He's simply vulnerable, whether he's gay or straight."

[ExAFO 0]

HAHAHA!

"Here's the cabana boy. Poke him in the shitpipe and you can stay, otherwise, get outta here..."

Heheh

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[unformed 0]

Why doesn't he go get counseling for three weeks? Then he won't have to worry about being prosecuted anymore....

This ad space for sale.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

I have been pondering this issue. His whole application is based on him being homosexual and the supposed abuse because of his sexual orientation in his home country.

However, in 21 years he has not had a homosexual relationship, nor from what I can read any homosexual interaction. I agree that at this point it would not be prudent to grant the refugee claim.

[Richards 0]

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Alvaro Antonio Orozco based his refugee claim on fears of homophobia and domestic abuse. He said he left Managua in 1998 at age 12 because he was regularly beaten with sticks and whips by an alcoholic father who threatened to "kill any child of his that was homosexual."

His father was a homophobe-We have homophobes in Canada too, so how does he claim it is neccessary to move to Canada? We have hate crimes against gays. What he faces back there is not persecution. He faces discrimination which is distinctly different, and also exists here in Canada.

He faced domestic violence-We have domestic violence in Canada. Again I do not see how Canada can provide refuge against a problem we have here.

I am sorry but this guy does not fit the definition of a refugee. To qualify he would have to face systemic persecution back home and since this statement....

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After a year hitchhiking through Central America, living off the kindness of strangers,

.

......indicates that he clearly does not then he is not a refugee. He may face discrimination but he is not a refugee.




Khaki, who will file a motion in federal court tomorrow to stay the removal. "In my view, the refugee board has failed to recognize that my client is a victim of violence, a victim of abuse. He's simply vulnerable, whether he's gay or straight."***

These independant refugee lawyers/consultants are part of the problem. They are paid to advise their clients on how to best convince a refugee board that they are victims. They know exactly which key words/phrases to have their clients use to impress a refugee board. Kudos to the boardmembers for having the courage to make the correct decision.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[narcimund 0]

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However, in 21 years he has not had a homosexual relationship, nor from what I can read any homosexual interaction. I agree that at this point it would not be prudent to grant the refugee claim.

Your statement of "21 years" is a ridiculous measurement. He's 21 years old. How much sexual interaction did you have in childhood? (Hold on! Strike that. I'm not really asking.)

I didn't have a relationship or sex with men before 21. And I didn't even have an oppressive family or a refuge situation to deal with. Does that mean I'm straight too?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[SkyDekker 1,141]

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Your statement of "21 years" is a ridiculous measurement. He's 21 years old.

Which doesn't make it so ridiculous. Hard to measure a longer time frame...

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I didn't have a relationship or sex with men before 21. And I didn't even have an oppressive family or a refuge situation to deal with. Does that mean I'm straight too?

No, nor am I judging whether he is gay or not. he is claiming that he was mistreated/abused on the account of him being gay. In this case the abuse can't be proven, nor can be proven that he is gay. IMHO there is very little to go on in granting his refugee claim. Hence, it shouldn't be granted.

[narcimund 0]

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No, nor am I judging whether he is gay or not. he is claiming that he was mistreated/abused on the account of him being gay. In this case the abuse can't be proven, nor can be proven that he is gay. IMHO there is very little to go on in granting his refugee claim. Hence, it shouldn't be granted.

I also have no opinion about this guy OR his immigration claims.

But saying a person hasn't had sex "in 21 years" is a VERY different connotation from saying he hasn't had sex "by age 21." Yes, the words are technically accurate but they leave a very different impression if you're not clearly aware of the guy's age.

Or shall we also say of a 5 year old, "He hasn't had sex in 5 years"? Yes, it's true but ridiculous and potentially misleading.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Andy9o8 0]

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Your statement of "21 years" is a ridiculous measurement. He's 21 years old.

Which doesn't make it so ridiculous. Hard to measure a longer time frame...

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I didn't have a relationship or sex with men before 21. And I didn't even have an oppressive family or a refuge situation to deal with. Does that mean I'm straight too?

No, nor am I judging whether he is gay or not. he is claiming that he was mistreated/abused on the account of him being gay. In this case the abuse can't be proven, nor can be proven that he is gay. IMHO there is very little to go on in granting his refugee claim. Hence, it shouldn't be granted.

Wait a minute - that's like saying a priest can't be gay unless he buggers an altar boy. While lifestyle MAY correlate with sexual orientation, sexual orientation can easily exist independent of lifestyle. You're setting up an impossible standard of proof for a gay person who's simply never had sex yet.

[narcimund 0]

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Wait a minute - that's like saying a priest can't be gay unless he buggers an altar boy. While lifestyle MAY correlate with sexual orientation, sexual orientation can easily exist independent of lifestyle. You're setting up an impossible standard of proof for a gay person who's simply never had sex yet.

I think skydekker's point isn't really that this kid isn't gay but that he's not VERIFIABLY gay. And also that immigration decisions need to be made on verified information. That's a pretty reasonable position.

But on the other hand, this kid is now on public record as claiming to be gay -- with his picture on the internet and everything. I think whether or not he really likes sucking dick, he's going to experience whatever it is gay people have to deal with when he gets deported.

So maybe the kid's lawyer can change the argument: "Since he's IDENTIFIED as gay, he's going to be persecuted." That might stand a chance actually.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[SkyDekker 1,141]

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I think skydekker's point isn't really that this kid isn't gay but that he's not VERIFIABLY gay. And also that immigration decisions need to be made on verified information. That's a pretty reasonable position.

But on the other hand, this kid is now on public record as claiming to be gay -- with his picture on the internet and everything. I think whether or not he really likes sucking dick, he's going to experience whatever it is gay people have to deal with when he gets deported.

So maybe the kid's lawyer can change the argument: "Since he's IDENTIFIED as gay, he's going to be persecuted." That might stand a chance actually.

I completely agree.

It will be interesting to see if that lawyer will use that tactic in the court proceedings started to stay the deportation.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I think skydekker's point isn't really that this kid isn't gay but that he's not VERIFIABLY gay. And also that immigration decisions need to be made on verified information. That's a pretty reasonable position.

I see. Well then. I guess if I ever want to claim asylum in Canada, I know what I have to do.

[Richards 0]

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he's going to experience whatever it is gay people have to deal with when he gets deported.

So maybe the kid's lawyer can change the argument: "Since he's IDENTIFIED as gay, he's going to be persecuted." That might stand a chance actually.

[narcimund 0]

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It will be interesting to see if that lawyer will use that tactic in the court proceedings started to stay the deportation.

Listening to a CBC interview with him now, he's just pointed out that the news in Nicaragua has covered him heavily which brings likelihood of ramifications.

And after listening to him explain his situation he sounds very authentic. No, I don't mean he has gay verbal affectations. He talks about his inner gay experience in a way that is either sincere or extremely subtle and informed acting.

I don't know if this is a legitimate immigration claim, but I'm convinced that he's gay.

* A little more information: The interview with the immigration board took place two years ago. "Haven't had sex in 21 years" now becomes "Hadn't had sex by age 19" -- hardly unique.

hehehe. And I like his comment: "I showed pictures to immigration of me with gay friends. I don't know what they expected -- I'd be naked in the pictures?"

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[IanHarrop 37]

Under the Safe Country agreement with the States, he should be sent to them to deal with. He came to Canada from the States and shouldn't be allowed under this agreement to shop for where he'd like to be a refugee.

The agreement is in place that is described in this old link.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/press/02/0236-pre.html

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy