Liberalism in the Classroom (Long, but I need your opinion)

[jarrodh 0]

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I would be interested to see out of all those that are giving Michelle advice how long ago it has been or if they were ever in a college setting.

Im in college now. Im pretty familiar with professors at my school and still I think my advice is still her best option.

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[nanook 1]

I wouldn't worry about it. My experience with those type of professors have always had a happy ending. . .a grade that I have earned. A lack of integrity on one area of his personality may not reflect his person as a whole. For all we know, he may think it's extremely important your grade reflects your work rather than your opinions. He doesn't like "fraud, liars and cheaters", maybe that's a good sign.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Richards 0]

I hate to say this but I would avoid going to the Dean. It could cause more problems than it solves. You may want to speak confidentially to another professor that you trust just so you are on record but do not go starting anything (and going to the Dean qualifies as starting something). Universities are powerhouses and if this guy has tenure he is pretty much untouchable so don't tempt him to prove that to you. Be polite to the clown and regardless of how he may try to needle you in the future do not take the bait. If he cannot get you worked up he will move on to another student.

It may just be that he is a dink, but not malicious with grades. If he blatantly marks you differently than other students he will have a hard time explaining that on an appeal. What he can do is be significantly less helpfull to you during his office hours than he is to others (I had a professor who did not like me and she pulled that shit on me). If he pulls that on you then you will need to take action.

Again do not take any course of action unless you have to since you can get on the blacklist as a problem student if you go above his head. At some point in thier student life every one has to deal with at least one goof.

Cheers,

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[kallend 1,683]

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You may also want to seek John Kallends advice on this issue, he may even agree with your professor, but unlikely that he would look upon this situation in any favorable manner.

I don't discuss politics in my science and engineering classes. NOT a good idea AT ALL.

If my students want to discuss out of class, that's fine. Being engineers, mostly they don't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Michele 1]

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What he can do is be significantly less helpfull to you during his office hours than he is to others

He has office hours. I've tried to go there (*unannounced), and the door was locked. When I asked him about that, he said "there's plenty of time during class to ask for help; I know the door is locked."

That put paid to office hours help...and this was before an exam, when I was really confused about a formula and wanted his help rather than guessing with everyone else. Sigh.

Kalland, I appreciate that you don't bring politics into the classroom...and being willing to talk about it after class should someone want. I've not brought up politics in class, although I've responded to his commentary at times (thus the entire fiasco as outlined above). But again, it's not necessarily the politics in the classroom...it's rather more his attitude and behavior *in class* to prove his point (i.e. handing me the Constitution article, et cetera) and his discussing me with a fellow classmate. That ticked me off, you know? Just ticked me off.

I've been in tears, and had a nightmare about it. This is really bothering me a great deal...especially because Chemistry isn't my strong suit. For now, though, I'll do nothing...and see what transpires over the next week.

And on Friday next, it will be Freedom Day - once the final is over, I plan on having a few drinks and then heading down to Sea World before the new semester starts the next Tuesday. Until then, I'll just survive the pressure, and do the work as best I can.

But man, this upsets me. Just really upsets me.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[billvon 2,476]

You probably don't want any advice from me, but here it is. (Feel free to ignore it.)

1) It's inappropriate for him to use his lecture to support/not support any political position, unless it directly impacts what he's talking about. He's not being paid for that. Before and after the lecture, he can talk about whatever he likes with whoever he likes, just as you can.

2) If you did not want to talk to him about politics you should not have engaged him in a political discussion.

3) Talking about the validity of carbon dating with respect to people who disbelieve it _is_ a valid subject to cover in a chemistry class, although he should do so in a factual manner.

4) Instructors often talk about their students with others. I have on occasion told my students "don't listen to Joe Skygod; he only has 20 jumps and gives bad advice." My mother, as a high school english teacher, would occasionally take a student aside and say "your schoolwork is suffering because of your association with this person/clique/gang, so decide now what you want out of my class." Talking behind other student's backs is not an issue, but talking about them inappropriately may well be.

5) Chemistry is a good subject to have such worries in, because the answers to chemistry questions are objective and straightforward. He cannot decide that, for you, the Sabatier reaction involves ethane instead of methane; that's just plain wrong and if he gigs you on it you have a valid reason to go to the dean and complain. If you have solid proof that he's discriminating against you (and chemistry will give you such solid proof) you have a good case.

6) A lot of teachers hold views that disagree with their students. You seem to have an issue with this guy's political views (since you titled this "liberalism in the classroom") and he with yours - but many teachers are used to dealing with differing opinions from their students. I've gotten several A's in creative writing classes where I disagreed violently with the instructor on issues of taste in literature. At one point, one instructor referred to me as "that guy who likes Niven's crap." So I wouldn't worry about it unless you get unfairly gigged on tests - and I think that's unlikely, especially in chemistry. If that happens, it would be appropriate to escalate it.

[Richards 0]

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He has office hours. I've tried to go there (*unannounced), and the door was locked. When I asked him about that, he said "there's plenty of time during class to ask for help; I know the door is locked."

That put paid to office hours help...and this was before an exam, when I was really confused about a formula and wanted his help rather than guessing with everyone else. Sigh.

If he is a dick about office hours with everyone then so be it, but if the students he likes are able to drop by and you are not then you may wish to seek help at the university. As I stated before I had a professor pull that crap on me and I did not fight her on the issue because her husband also worked there and was quite senior (strangely me and him got along fantastically) but I regret that to this day. To avoid getting into conflict I gave up the opportunity to demand a fair shake when it came to support and did not get as much out of her courses as other people. In retrospect I should have been more willing to stand up to her. You may wish to approach him and try to see if he can agree that he does not need to like you to be a good teacher. As Bilvon pointed out he cannot directly screw your grades but if you cannot approach him for help you will be at a disadvantage to your classmates.

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it's rather more his attitude and behavior *in class* to prove his point (i.e. handing me the Constitution article, et cetera) and his discussing me with a fellow classmate. That ticked me off, you know? Just ticked me off.

Guy just sounds like a goof. Try to seek resolution. If that means treating him like you respect him while you think he is a bowel movement so be it. Do not seek conflict with someone in his position. Remember...tenure means that while his decisions can be reversed by people higher than him, there are no serious consequenses to this clown if he causes you problems.

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I've been in tears, and had a nightmare about it. This is really bothering me a great deal...especially because Chemistry isn't my strong suit. For now, though, I'll do nothing...and see what transpires over the next week.

It is just one course, so do not let it destroy you. Incedentally, if chemistry is not your area and you are in the 80's how are you doing in the courses you are good at? 80's are not to shabby for a course that is not your strong area.

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But man, this upsets me. Just really upsets me.

Wishing you the best on this one. Hey, with any luck the guy might have a heart attack.

Cheers and good luck

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Nightingale 0]

Don't say anything until after you've gotten your grade. At the moment (from reading your first post... don't have time to read the rest of the thread), it seems that you disagree politically, but don't have any reason to call into question his ability to grade objectively. If your grade is not to your satisfaction, go see him with your lab partner, and ask to examine your tests. Compare yours with your partner's and then decide whether you think the grade was fair, and take appropriate action at that time.

[Richards 0]

The problem is that he refuses to see her during office hours. If she needs help but cannot get it while others can it does put her at a significant disadvantage. Even if he grades objectively, he is indirectly causing her problems by not making himself available. I would normally agree with the idea of "don't start anything" but in this case if she lets it go he can indirectly hurt her grades.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[1969912 0]

Michele,

It is extremely unlikely that your teacher will screw you on your grade for the class. Just do your usual good job on the tests. If anything seems amiss after that, then look into your options as far as challenging your grade. Even if you were to look into it now you would likely be told to wait until after the exams anyway.

The last thing you need is foul up other grades worrying about this one class.

Betcha' a pint you do fine!

jim

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[1969912 0]

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The problem is that he refuses to see her during office hours. If she needs help but cannot get it while others can it does put her at a significant disadvantage. Even if he grades objectively, he is indirectly causing her problems by not making himself available. I would normally agree with the idea of "don't start anything" but in this case if she lets it go he can indirectly hurt her grades.

The office hours situation can be solved by finding another prof. to talk to - "Oh, gosh, I was just looking for Dr. Dickhead, but noticed your door was open...do you have time for a quick question..."

TA's and grad students are good as well, if available.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Michele 1]

Why wouldn't I want advice from you? Good grief.

Once again, I don't really care about the politics in the classroom; when an instructor gets so bent out of shape that he takes 30+ minutes to look something up, print it out, cancel the rest of class, and shove it in their student's face simply because they disagree on a topic that is not part of the class...well, there might be a problem.

Carbon dating accuracy is a topic of discussion...but he didn't discuss it. He railed against creationism, and let it go at that. He was already pissed about the earlier conversation, so I'm attributing his temper to that. Hopefully, we will get instruction on how it works, because I've read ahead, and it is supposed to be covered in the next chapter. We'll see.

I don't care if someone is liberal - my poli sci professor was extremely liberal, but that's a class to discuss the stuff in...I got an A, even though he called me a "rampant" Neocon (to that I laughed....and explained I wasn't...).

Liberal democratism doesn't really bother me, and again, as stated, I find the exchange of views to be interesting and I generally learn something. However, to have a chemistry professor get so bothered that he effectively cancels class - or even gets into a heated argument with someone about it, instead of waiting until after class - well, again, there might be a problem.

I recognize that skygodism should be protected against if you're an instructor. Furthermore, I recognize an instructor pulling aside a student and cautioning him/her about his grades. Both are viable. That is not what he did...and furthermore, the classmate to whom he spoke against me to is an extreme liberal...not someone who has ever made any attempt to be friendly toward me, or even listen to other's views without her input. It was gossip. Plain, simple, baldfaced gossip. And in my view, thoroughly inappropriate. Neither your cautioning against listening to the "skygod" who is telling someone to hook at 100 feet nor your mother suggesting that someone's performance may be improved if they didn't hang out with a group is gossip...I had never tried to "influence" or help anyone in that class - rather, I'm the one begging for help from other students because I can't get it from the instructor. Therefore, the analogy is imperfect. Sorry, Bill.

If he grades me unfairly, and it affects my overall grade in the class, I will most likely bump it up. However, I am rather less inclined to do that then just stick it out, study my poor brain out, and do what I can to pass the class with my current grade level; B. We shall see what we shall see...I am hoping he is professional enough to say "that was Friday, this is Monday. Let's move on" not in so many words, but in deeds.

And rest easy - any political/religious comments he makes will not get a response from me from this point out. He has demonstrated an inability to handle differing opinions with tact and with decency, and I have no wish to cost the rest of the class any additional instruction (as happened on Friday).

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

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It is just one course, so do not let it destroy you. Incedentally, if chemistry is not your area and you are in the 80's how are you doing in the courses you are good at? 80's are not to shabby for a course that is not your strong area.

It is just one course; failing it will put me behind an entire semester. not getting a high grade will affect my chances of getting into the schools I am applying to in June. It matters....

The courses I am comfortable with, and good in, I score in the high 90's to 100s consistently. The reason for the 87.5 in his class is because I understand labs, love doing labs, and can generally get full credit there. I got an 88 on his last exam, but a much poorer grade on the first exam. So it's an average of being very good in lab, and not so strong in the lecture aspect.

I know it's not too shabby, but there are still about 350 points to be earned - an exam on Monday, the final (200 points) on Friday, and two labs in the interim...and that's the problem. There's still room to move rather far from the B I have now, and while there's also room to move up, I somehow doubt it will occur. But I am studying and studying and trying to understand it all. So maybe I can hold onto the grade I've got now. I wouldn't be displeased, considering I failed chemistry in high school...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

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The last thing you need is foul up other grades worrying about this one class.

Thankfully, right now I have no other classes. This is a rough course for me; I just don't understand it. And that's why I am taking it alone - that way, there are no other classes to be concerned about.

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Betcha' a pint you do fine!

From your lips to God's ears, Jim...from your lips to His ears. And I'll be damned pleased to buy you a pint (or two) if it comes out you're right...and I'll buy me one to cry in if you're wrong.

I'll just do my best, and see what happens. That's about all I can do, you know?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

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Don't say anything until after you've gotten your grade. At the moment (from reading your first post... don't have time to read the rest of the thread), it seems that you disagree politically, but don't have any reason to call into question his ability to grade objectively. If your grade is not to your satisfaction, go see him with your lab partner, and ask to examine your tests. Compare yours with your partner's and then decide whether you think the grade was fair, and take appropriate action at that time.

I have 3 lab partners - one who scores about the same as me, one who's about perfect, and one who scored 25 on the last test. We're all over the board...but we help each other as best as we can. We're a solid and good team.

I most likely won't be doing anything now....but might if I feel there was some inaccuracies in grading.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Lucky... 0]

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I might be being hypersensitive...and I might not be. All I know is he was pounding me. Did I escalate it? Perhaps, but I also realized that, and kept saying "let's agree to disagree" in an attempt to stop that and to get back to the topic - Chemistry.

The problem isn't necessarily the politics in the classroom - it was the bullshit commentary afterwards to a fellow classmate. The problem is also that I am not pulling an A in the class - and that's simply because I don't grok the material very well. However, at this point, I am indeed concerned that he will be downgrading me unnecessarily because of personal feelings. Do I think he will do that? Dunno...but the possibility is there. Furthermore, the issue was compounded because he took the time and during break, researched, printed out, and brought me the article from the Constitution. He continued, and escalated, at that point...and then I caught him discussing me with a student.

As for taping, I doubt that it will help; he's likely to not bring up the topic again. However, I will bring my tape recorder, and will have it there should the need arise.

Lucky, that site doesn't have my school on it. However, on Ratemyprofessor.com, he is the lowest rated professor in the department. He knows it, and "brags" about it.

Warpedskydiver, thanks for the advice. I'll consider that carefully.

Appreciate the opinions and the discussion...

Ciels-
Michele

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I might be being hypersensitive...and I might not be. All I know is he was pounding me. Did I escalate it? Perhaps, but I also realized that, and kept saying "let's agree to disagree" in an attempt to stop that and to get back to the topic - Chemistry.

So you wanted to end it on your terms in his mind and he wanted to end it on his terms in his mind, so your resolution, however fair it might be, wasn't satisfactory to him. This is not a right/wrong issue, it is an opinion, and with teacher's egos they want to be right. I happen to agree with him, but that is not the issue. WHat is the issue with you and him.... that is to come right now ......

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The problem isn't necessarily the politics in the classroom - it was the bullshit commentary afterwards to a fellow classmate.

You don't know that, and hell, you are engaging in it too. This issue is really about ego on both of your sides.

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The problem is also that I am not pulling an A in the class - and that's simply because I don't grok the material very well.

Neither did I, but hell, a high B is ok, isn't it? Are you going into nursing?

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Furthermore, the issue was compounded because he took the time and during break, researched, printed out, and brought me the article from the Constitution. He continued, and escalated, at that point...and then I caught him discussing me with a student.

Hell, I do that too. Someone at work makes an assertion about our lovely criminal's track record, I bring in data to evidence otherwise. Another guy claimed local univ tuition hadn't raised that much since criminal took office, I spent time that night to evidence otherwise, about 85% increase since criminal.

I spent hours and actually bought a bible to establish that US laws denying marriage between people of different races, antimiscegenation laws, existed until 1968, Loving V Virgiania. Fruthermore, these laws stemmed from the Christian Bible. I brought them to work and showed him. Of course then once you exhibit the truth you're a bastard, as they refuse to admit you're right. Same guy, juveniles can be transfered to adult court at 8 years old in my state, he disagreed, brought it to work, "PROOVED" it (just being layman), and he kinda shrugged and walked away.

Point is, I think there is a bit of ego on your behalf; could it be that he made his pioint and you refuse to acknowledge? W/o stirring shit, do know that most people have a hard time admitting that, esp conservatives. But I know professors have teh biggest egos of all, but they are often right, as they have spent their life learning.

Finally, what's wrong with researching supporting data? That is teh empirical approach, which opposes the Christian approach, listening to your elders and praising them. I think that's what he's trying to say.

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As for taping, I doubt that it will help; he's likely to not bring up the topic again. However, I will bring my tape recorder, and will have it there should the need arise.

Make sure to get the entire conversation, but check state law and univ policy first.

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Lucky, that site doesn't have my school on it. However, on Ratemyprofessor.com, he is the lowest rated professor in the department. He knows it, and "brags" about it.

Rated low due to his grading trends? You must be at Community College then, I'm guessing? Shit, I would do well with him, just bring up politics every time he starts talking moles and valence electrons.

[Lucky... 0]

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Unless its a conservative position.. then it would be ok of course.

Not necessarily, Jeanne. I'd be upset if he were conservative and pounded a lib in a Chemistry class...and especially if he commented to me that the other student was unintelligent. See, that's inappropriate in a chem class, and even in a poli-sci class. Instructors are supposed to instruct, and encourage learning and to teach; when one simply insults another, no learning takes place (you see that here constantly...although here, it's no biggie; this isn't a classroom).

Althought most of the class had left at break, I had stayed because I had additional questions. Because of his actions after break (his unwillingness to let it go...), I never asked the questions. And that bothers me.

As for the person who said "the semester's over", it's not. It's winter intersession, and it doesn't end until next week Friday. I have two exams during that time; one on Monday, and the final on Friday. Together, those exams are worth 300 points, plenty to knock my score down below passing, and certainly enough to take me off my B. What he's done in the past for everyone is allow partial credit on the problems....but my concern is that I'll make enough mistakes that he's allowed in the past and that he allows others to make, but he'll remove all points for that error...which he might not do for others. Because of that, my concern is valid.

The session will be over in 1 week; and then I'll be on back to those classes which I both enjoy and understand...it's just a matter of making it through this week and these exams fairly.

And again, just to make it clear...I like this guy as a person, differing opinions and all. I am just quite bothered about the whole event last night...and concerned it will indeed impact my grade.

Ciels-
Michele

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Althought most of the class had left at break, I had stayed because I had additional questions. Because of his actions after break (his unwillingness to let it go...), I never asked the questions. And that bothers me.

And that's substantive, but you have to bring it up before the tests, not after if you get a poor grade. That is rolling the dice, so if you lose, no whining. I've been in your shoes several times, not over that kind of issue as I love that kind of debate, but over other substantive issues. Their dept has a freestyle form of teaching, so for you to come in and dictate what he does in the classroom will be real tough and even conservatives in his dept will back his position even if they hate him, just as lawyers/judges back each other, cops back each other, etc....

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What he's done in the past for everyone is allow partial credit on the problems....but my concern is that I'll make enough mistakes that he's allowed in the past and that he allows others to make, but he'll remove all points for that error...which he might not do for others. Because of that, my concern is valid.

I would send an email with a quasi apology for the conversation. Make up a story about a bad day. He will feel good about you and then when you see him, smile at him (wear a low-cut blouse too). Think about it the other way if you were the teacher, you would have a good taste in your mouth. But will your ego allow that? Possibly read what he gave you and develop an argument to agree with him. Remember, people with agos can be controlled by their very ego. If you stroke it then he needs you for that, if you deny it, then he despises you.

[Lucky... 0]

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Michele,

Whether you like it or not, that's just the way things are while you are in school. Your teachers and professors have you in a vulnerable position and there is little you can do about it. Most are professional and stick to the topics they are teaching but others, not so much.

I'm not going to talk right and wrong here because I think that with the exception of criminal acts, right and wrong are sort of irrelevant in that situation.

You need to have it very clear in your mind what you want to achieve in school. Do you want an education or do you want to get a degree and have a 4.0 GPA? Generally, you'll need to choose one or the other because the "educational" system is not really compatible with getting both.

Let me spell it out for you in very clear terms. If you want a degree and a 4.0 GPA you will do things like ask around to find the easiest professors for the courses you need to take and you will get copies of their old exams. You will visit them during office hours and do some not-so-obvious brown-nosing and act like their field of study is the most fascinating thing you have ever been exposed to. You will *not* disagree when they express opinions you disagree with.

On the other hand, a real education must involve open debate and the free exchange of ideas. The problem, as you point out, is that doing so can get people annoyed at you and if those people have the ability to jerk you around, they may well do so.

My advice is to decide what you want (education or degree) and stick with an approach that will ensure success. Don't bother with going to the Dean. That may result in some action toward your instructor but it will do nothing to contribute to your long-term goal unless your goal is to clean up the "educational" system.

Walt

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Your teachers and professors have you in a vulnerable position ...

Considering the academic climate, careful how you word that

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Let me spell it out for you in very clear terms. If you want a degree and a 4.0 GPA you will do things like ask around to find the easiest professors for the courses you need to take and you will get copies of their old exams. You will visit them during office hours and do some not-so-obvious brown-nosing and act like their field of study is the most fascinating thing you have ever been exposed to. You will *not* disagree when they express opinions you disagree with.

To take it further, I fixed one professor's car on multiple occassions, went to dinner with him and my GF too, during the semester too . I won't say more, but there was more to it too. Anyway, American academia is a bit of a joke. SOme students are protected, some are degraded for no reason. Universities have a division within them, there is the hard right side, the lefty libs, thegay groups and other divisions with some spill-over. Politics are a part of colleges/universities.

[Lucky... 0]

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I would be interested to see out of all those that are giving Michelle advice how long ago it has been or if they were ever in a college setting.

It was my experience in college just a few years ago that only those seeking a political debate would find one. If you never bring politics up most other people will never bring their political thoughts up also. The classroom was for the specific purpose of talking about the subject we were on, not bringing up side tangets with current political topics. I was in college during the 2000 election, 9/11 and a few other hottly debated political events so I know a tad about being around the "liberal establishment" when things were getting intersting in the world.

Unless you seek out a confrontation with politics most people will not force their political views on the public. Now if you have said things in the past that conflict with others views then they will probally throw their views out there too.

Best thing to do is to just sit back and follow along in class and leave your political thoughts at the door unless you are in a Poli-Sci class. If someone says something that you disagree with socially or politically then ignore it unless they are talking about the specific class you are in.

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I would be interested to see out of all those that are giving Michelle advice how long ago it has been or if they were ever in a college setting.

Mist of the last 11 years, on and off.

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It was my experience in college just a few years ago that only those seeking a political debate would find one.

I know, I took this political science class and unsolicited they kept bringing up politics......quite annoying.

[Lucky... 0]

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I hate to say this but I would avoid going to the Dean. It could cause more problems than it solves. You may want to speak confidentially to another professor that you trust just so you are on record but do not go starting anything (and going to the Dean qualifies as starting something). Universities are powerhouses and if this guy has tenure he is pretty much untouchable so don't tempt him to prove that to you. Be polite to the clown and regardless of how he may try to needle you in the future do not take the bait. If he cannot get you worked up he will move on to another student.

It may just be that he is a dink, but not malicious with grades. If he blatantly marks you differently than other students he will have a hard time explaining that on an appeal. What he can do is be significantly less helpfull to you during his office hours than he is to others (I had a professor who did not like me and she pulled that shit on me). If he pulls that on you then you will need to take action.

Again do not take any course of action unless you have to since you can get on the blacklist as a problem student if you go above his head. At some point in thier student life every one has to deal with at least one goof.

Cheers,

Richards

I totally agree with this and would go a step further. I would create an argument SUPPORTING his position with that document he gave you. He will feel as though he converted you, taught you something and his ego will be huge. Seriously, try it and you will be pleasantly surprised. You have to do it today though, as your test is tomorrow. If he screws you, you still have reserved your right to complain and you have your email as evidence that the issue was brought up. I know it's hard to bow down to a lowly liberal, but just think outside the box on this one. I was a fighter with these issues, but on occassion I relented and learned that a positive relationship ensued.

If you do this, write the email agreeing, don't be too agreeing, just agree on some points and explain why. Don't make it too naueatingly sweet, just a bit and brief.

I've played fuck-fuck with comm college teachers and had to change schools for fear of retaliation from other teachers, so if you play it hard by going higher, don;t piss and moan of there are more unfair repurcussions.

[Richards 0]

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The office hours situation can be solved by finding another prof. to talk to - "Oh, gosh, I was just looking for Dr. Dickhead, but noticed your door was open...do you have time for a quick question..."

TA's and grad students are good as well, if available.

[Richards 0]

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It is just one course; failing it will put me behind an entire semester. not getting a high grade will affect my chances of getting into the schools I am applying to in June. It matters....

Sorry, I did not mean that it did not matter. I just wanted to remind you not to let the frustration of this course spill into other courses. If you allow this to eat you up then it can impact your performance in the other courses.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Lucky... 0]

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Why wouldn't I want advice from you? Good grief.

Once again, I don't really care about the politics in the classroom; when an instructor gets so bent out of shape that he takes 30+ minutes to look something up, print it out, cancel the rest of class, and shove it in their student's face simply because they disagree on a topic that is not part of the class...well, there might be a problem.

Carbon dating accuracy is a topic of discussion...but he didn't discuss it. He railed against creationism, and let it go at that. He was already pissed about the earlier conversation, so I'm attributing his temper to that. Hopefully, we will get instruction on how it works, because I've read ahead, and it is supposed to be covered in the next chapter. We'll see.

I don't care if someone is liberal - my poli sci professor was extremely liberal, but that's a class to discuss the stuff in...I got an A, even though he called me a "rampant" Neocon (to that I laughed....and explained I wasn't...).

Liberal democratism doesn't really bother me, and again, as stated, I find the exchange of views to be interesting and I generally learn something. However, to have a chemistry professor get so bothered that he effectively cancels class - or even gets into a heated argument with someone about it, instead of waiting until after class - well, again, there might be a problem.

I recognize that skygodism should be protected against if you're an instructor. Furthermore, I recognize an instructor pulling aside a student and cautioning him/her about his grades. Both are viable. That is not what he did...and furthermore, the classmate to whom he spoke against me to is an extreme liberal...not someone who has ever made any attempt to be friendly toward me, or even listen to other's views without her input. It was gossip. Plain, simple, baldfaced gossip. And in my view, thoroughly inappropriate. Neither your cautioning against listening to the "skygod" who is telling someone to hook at 100 feet nor your mother suggesting that someone's performance may be improved if they didn't hang out with a group is gossip...I had never tried to "influence" or help anyone in that class - rather, I'm the one begging for help from other students because I can't get it from the instructor. Therefore, the analogy is imperfect. Sorry, Bill.

If he grades me unfairly, and it affects my overall grade in the class, I will most likely bump it up. However, I am rather less inclined to do that then just stick it out, study my poor brain out, and do what I can to pass the class with my current grade level; B. We shall see what we shall see...I am hoping he is professional enough to say "that was Friday, this is Monday. Let's move on" not in so many words, but in deeds.

And rest easy - any political/religious comments he makes will not get a response from me from this point out. He has demonstrated an inability to handle differing opinions with tact and with decency, and I have no wish to cost the rest of the class any additional instruction (as happened on Friday).

Ciels-
Michele

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Once again, I don't really care about the politics in the classroom; when an instructor gets so bent out of shape that he takes 30+ minutes to look something up, print it out, cancel the rest of class, and shove it in their student's face simply because they disagree on a topic that is not part of the class...well, there might be a problem.

Depending upon this guy's education, he had to do a thesis paper for a Masters and a dissertation for a PhD, so that is the model for educated people, to support their assertions. Uneducated people and IMO conservatives tend to reply on what granny told em or what their life experiences have yielded. That is the scientific model, do you knwo what what peer-reviewed journals are?

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Carbon dating accuracy is a topic of discussion...but he didn't discuss it. He railed against creationism, and let it go at that. He was already pissed about the earlier conversation, so I'm attributing his temper to that. Hopefully, we will get instruction on how it works, because I've read ahead, and it is supposed to be covered in the next chapter. We'll see.

That's because creationsim is a fairy tale

Carbon dating is simply a 1/2 life theory. Approx 5500 years the carbon in a fossil or whatever has carbon, will degrade to half by quantity of carbon. To date things longer they use radio isotopes..... but wait, short earth, only 10k or less.... see, donosaurs (65M years) are a lefist conspiracy to confuse the people.

What I like about science and despise about religion is that science calls their beliefs theories, whereas religion calls theirs fact.

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even though he called me a "rampant" Neocon (to that I laughed....and explained I wasn't...).

I know, I had a recent issue there too...... good thing there are none in here which is evidence you cannot be one.

I'm tellin ya, an email to him showing him you're turning the corner to agree with him will go miles for you. You then own his ego for that moment and he will not forget.

[rehmwa 2]

1 - He sounds like a vindictive prick that might very well be unfair to you for disagreeing with him in public. But, since chemistry is very well defined and not subjective, if he hurts you in an obvious way, then that's the time to go after him. If he doesn't, then you got a fair grade and can move on.

2 - Why the heck are you wasting the entire class's time by encouraging his petty little rants? You are both guilty of this. Instead of 'debating' the points together, how about just "can we study some CHEMISTRY here?" and leave it at that? It's too late for you to do that now. I wonder if the hallway conversation was a student complaining to him about the two of you wasting his time with your digressions.....

3 - He needs to have someone of university authority come in and audit his class content whether or not he is unfair in your grades. Kallend does it right, this guy is why people are so cynical about college professors. I saw a ton of them like that too when I went to college. We just rolled our eyes when they go all political and stuck it out through the tedious pain until they got back on subject. If it goes too far, then escalated. Never needed to, if you ignore them then the wind goes out of their sails pretty quick.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jenfly00 0]

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Don't say anything until after you've gotten your grade. At the moment (from reading your first post... don't have time to read the rest of the thread), it seems that you disagree politically, but don't have any reason to call into question his ability to grade objectively. If your grade is not to your satisfaction, go see him with your lab partner, and ask to examine your tests. Compare yours with your partner's and then decide whether you think the grade was fair, and take appropriate action at that time.

I have 3 lab partners - one who scores about the same as me, one who's about perfect, and one who scored 25 on the last test. We're all over the board...but we help each other as best as we can. We're a solid and good team.

I most likely won't be doing anything now....but might if I feel there was some inaccuracies in grading.

Ciels-
Michele

I've read the enabling responses here with a sense of disbelief. This is a college level course, you are well into adulthood. You decide to lock horns with a professor in his classroom and then attempt to end it on your terms. Failing that you are carrying a tape recorder to future classes, considering complaining to ...anyone who will listen, been in tears, and had a nightmare about it.

I've spent most of my life in academia. There are good, bad, fair, unfair, crazy instructors. I've always carried at least a full academic load, worked full time while doing it and avoided high drama over petty issues. When I've had disagreements, I went to them and discussed the problem.

Here's the harsh reality of the situation. This is college, not elementary school. Do your work and suck it up, cupcake.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".