kallend 1,679 #76 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI don't necessarily agree... but your view would be different than what we currently have, how? The government currently has limits on the amount and type of investments. I want the limits removed and the type broadened. I can agree with the general idea... I'd much rather have .gov entirely out of my retirement, though... Other than saying "Neener neener it's all you own fault", what would you to about people whose investments went bad (such as investing in Enron) to prevent them from starving in the streets in old age? If the government allowed people to opt out of Social Security and put that money in a 401k or some similar vehicle, then certain restrictions should be implemented, to limit the risk to those accounts. For example - require 30% to be invested in interest bearing/bond vehicles, set a limit of 10% in stocks that are considered high risk as well as a 10% limit on an individual stock. . Who makes the call on "high risk" (or "not high risk"), and what if they are wrong?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #77 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #78 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #79 December 26, 2006 QuoteWho makes the call on "high risk" (or "not high risk") Using industry standards. Anything in any gray area gets lumped in with the high risk group. Quote, and what if they are wrong? Then that portion of their account will take a hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #80 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #81 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already I agree that education needs more in the way of reform than just throwing money at the problem. I don't, however, believe that education is over funded. QuoteAs for healthcare. Want to really screw it up? Let the government fund and run it. Want to fix it? (cost wise anyway) tort reform. Our current healthcare system allows us to pay more and get less compared to many other first world nations. The problem is not malpractice lawsuits, either. Our system is fundamentally broken. As Andy908 said, we don't have to copy someone else's system, but it would be foolish not to learn what we can from other systems that appear to work better than our own. As soon as you can show me one I will take a look. None even come close today"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #82 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already Streamline administration. Fix special education. An example: About 1/4 of the budget of LAUSD goes to special education, for about 1/10 of the students. This doesn't even account for all the legal fees for special education lawsuits filed by parents (about 1/3 of the budget of PYLUSD last year). (I'm citing data I acquired from the districts for a special education law research project) Sure, there's enough money. They're just not spending it in the right places. LAUSD, with its multi-level management and huge administration overhead is just ridiculous. Also, I'm not saying special ed is the wrong place, but there's just something wrong with forcing school districts to defend lawsuit after lawsuit using taxpayer money. That's millions of dollars that should be going to educate kids that's ending up funding legal battles instead. Education funds shouldn't be paying lawyers until every kid has a textbook. Accepting IDEA and waiving our 11th amendment sovereign immunity rights was one of the dumbest things California has done. Another perfect example!!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #83 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #84 December 27, 2006 QuoteYou should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. The question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? You know, occasionally we hear about (sex) slavery in this country, but I think most Americans think slavery ended with the Civil War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #85 December 27, 2006 QuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #86 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #87 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #88 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave I'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #89 December 27, 2006 QuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #90 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave Is *THAT* what that horrid droning was in the background? No, wait..that's trance...sorry! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #91 December 27, 2006 QuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #92 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Or that they are only for Free Speech as long as it isn't them being criticized. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/us/24aclu.html?ex=1306123200&en=cd9a5fd9f6948a5d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #93 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. And so we're back to the Roman Catholic Church!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #94 December 27, 2006 Quote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #95 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed. Agree to disagree, I suppose. Limited government assistance can be a good thing - a "womb to tomb" free ride isn't.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #96 December 27, 2006 QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #97 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #98 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries. Nice. Now, how about actually answering the questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #99 December 27, 2006 Here. I'll help. QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Not widespread at all. In fact, workhouses (outside of prison programs) were practically non-existent in the US. QuoteWere they commonplace in all eras? NO. Quote Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? YES. QuoteAre we talking about the norm or the exception? The exception. How am I doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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mnealtx 0 #78 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #79 December 26, 2006 QuoteWho makes the call on "high risk" (or "not high risk") Using industry standards. Anything in any gray area gets lumped in with the high risk group. Quote, and what if they are wrong? Then that portion of their account will take a hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #80 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #81 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already I agree that education needs more in the way of reform than just throwing money at the problem. I don't, however, believe that education is over funded. QuoteAs for healthcare. Want to really screw it up? Let the government fund and run it. Want to fix it? (cost wise anyway) tort reform. Our current healthcare system allows us to pay more and get less compared to many other first world nations. The problem is not malpractice lawsuits, either. Our system is fundamentally broken. As Andy908 said, we don't have to copy someone else's system, but it would be foolish not to learn what we can from other systems that appear to work better than our own. As soon as you can show me one I will take a look. None even come close today"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #82 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already Streamline administration. Fix special education. An example: About 1/4 of the budget of LAUSD goes to special education, for about 1/10 of the students. This doesn't even account for all the legal fees for special education lawsuits filed by parents (about 1/3 of the budget of PYLUSD last year). (I'm citing data I acquired from the districts for a special education law research project) Sure, there's enough money. They're just not spending it in the right places. LAUSD, with its multi-level management and huge administration overhead is just ridiculous. Also, I'm not saying special ed is the wrong place, but there's just something wrong with forcing school districts to defend lawsuit after lawsuit using taxpayer money. That's millions of dollars that should be going to educate kids that's ending up funding legal battles instead. Education funds shouldn't be paying lawyers until every kid has a textbook. Accepting IDEA and waiving our 11th amendment sovereign immunity rights was one of the dumbest things California has done. Another perfect example!!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #83 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #84 December 27, 2006 QuoteYou should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. The question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? You know, occasionally we hear about (sex) slavery in this country, but I think most Americans think slavery ended with the Civil War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #85 December 27, 2006 QuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #86 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #87 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #88 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave I'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #89 December 27, 2006 QuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #90 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave Is *THAT* what that horrid droning was in the background? No, wait..that's trance...sorry! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #91 December 27, 2006 QuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #92 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Or that they are only for Free Speech as long as it isn't them being criticized. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/us/24aclu.html?ex=1306123200&en=cd9a5fd9f6948a5d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #93 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. And so we're back to the Roman Catholic Church!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #94 December 27, 2006 Quote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #95 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed. Agree to disagree, I suppose. Limited government assistance can be a good thing - a "womb to tomb" free ride isn't.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #96 December 27, 2006 QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #97 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #98 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries. Nice. Now, how about actually answering the questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #99 December 27, 2006 Here. I'll help. QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Not widespread at all. In fact, workhouses (outside of prison programs) were practically non-existent in the US. QuoteWere they commonplace in all eras? NO. Quote Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? YES. QuoteAre we talking about the norm or the exception? The exception. How am I doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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NCclimber 0 #79 December 26, 2006 QuoteWho makes the call on "high risk" (or "not high risk") Using industry standards. Anything in any gray area gets lumped in with the high risk group. Quote, and what if they are wrong? Then that portion of their account will take a hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #80 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #81 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already I agree that education needs more in the way of reform than just throwing money at the problem. I don't, however, believe that education is over funded. QuoteAs for healthcare. Want to really screw it up? Let the government fund and run it. Want to fix it? (cost wise anyway) tort reform. Our current healthcare system allows us to pay more and get less compared to many other first world nations. The problem is not malpractice lawsuits, either. Our system is fundamentally broken. As Andy908 said, we don't have to copy someone else's system, but it would be foolish not to learn what we can from other systems that appear to work better than our own. As soon as you can show me one I will take a look. None even come close today"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #82 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already Streamline administration. Fix special education. An example: About 1/4 of the budget of LAUSD goes to special education, for about 1/10 of the students. This doesn't even account for all the legal fees for special education lawsuits filed by parents (about 1/3 of the budget of PYLUSD last year). (I'm citing data I acquired from the districts for a special education law research project) Sure, there's enough money. They're just not spending it in the right places. LAUSD, with its multi-level management and huge administration overhead is just ridiculous. Also, I'm not saying special ed is the wrong place, but there's just something wrong with forcing school districts to defend lawsuit after lawsuit using taxpayer money. That's millions of dollars that should be going to educate kids that's ending up funding legal battles instead. Education funds shouldn't be paying lawyers until every kid has a textbook. Accepting IDEA and waiving our 11th amendment sovereign immunity rights was one of the dumbest things California has done. Another perfect example!!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #83 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #84 December 27, 2006 QuoteYou should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. The question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? You know, occasionally we hear about (sex) slavery in this country, but I think most Americans think slavery ended with the Civil War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #85 December 27, 2006 QuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #86 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #87 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #88 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave I'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #89 December 27, 2006 QuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #90 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave Is *THAT* what that horrid droning was in the background? No, wait..that's trance...sorry! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #91 December 27, 2006 QuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #92 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Or that they are only for Free Speech as long as it isn't them being criticized. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/us/24aclu.html?ex=1306123200&en=cd9a5fd9f6948a5d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #93 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. And so we're back to the Roman Catholic Church!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #94 December 27, 2006 Quote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #95 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed. Agree to disagree, I suppose. Limited government assistance can be a good thing - a "womb to tomb" free ride isn't.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #96 December 27, 2006 QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #97 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #98 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries. Nice. Now, how about actually answering the questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #99 December 27, 2006 Here. I'll help. QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Not widespread at all. In fact, workhouses (outside of prison programs) were practically non-existent in the US. QuoteWere they commonplace in all eras? NO. Quote Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? YES. QuoteAre we talking about the norm or the exception? The exception. How am I doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rushmc 18 #81 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already I agree that education needs more in the way of reform than just throwing money at the problem. I don't, however, believe that education is over funded. QuoteAs for healthcare. Want to really screw it up? Let the government fund and run it. Want to fix it? (cost wise anyway) tort reform. Our current healthcare system allows us to pay more and get less compared to many other first world nations. The problem is not malpractice lawsuits, either. Our system is fundamentally broken. As Andy908 said, we don't have to copy someone else's system, but it would be foolish not to learn what we can from other systems that appear to work better than our own. As soon as you can show me one I will take a look. None even come close today"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #82 December 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteEverything but #5 Education is terribly over funded today. The problem is not money, it is the simple fact that success in the education system mean high attendance (that is how they get paid) Give parents choices and get rid of poor performers and there is more than enough money there already Streamline administration. Fix special education. An example: About 1/4 of the budget of LAUSD goes to special education, for about 1/10 of the students. This doesn't even account for all the legal fees for special education lawsuits filed by parents (about 1/3 of the budget of PYLUSD last year). (I'm citing data I acquired from the districts for a special education law research project) Sure, there's enough money. They're just not spending it in the right places. LAUSD, with its multi-level management and huge administration overhead is just ridiculous. Also, I'm not saying special ed is the wrong place, but there's just something wrong with forcing school districts to defend lawsuit after lawsuit using taxpayer money. That's millions of dollars that should be going to educate kids that's ending up funding legal battles instead. Education funds shouldn't be paying lawyers until every kid has a textbook. Accepting IDEA and waiving our 11th amendment sovereign immunity rights was one of the dumbest things California has done. Another perfect example!!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #83 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Translation: Libertarians oppose extorting people's money at gunpoint to give to other people who need it more. How do you think people were taken care of before Nanny-care started promising the cradle to grave gravy train? By their families and community charity. Soup kitchens and Hoovervilles, eh? And free pauper's graves for those who starve. Great solution. More hyperbole from the left...imagine that. I never realized we were in another Great Depression, John...thanks for pointing that out to me! What part of "By their families and community charity" did you not understand? I know that won't be popular with the "womb-to-tomb" bunch, since that means they'd actually need to help take care of Grandma/Grandpa instead of shuffling them off to the nursing home... YOU ASKED (paraphrasing) "what happened before....". Don't ask questions if you won't like the correct answer. I could also have mentioned workhouses. Really? I didn't realize the entire sum of history was from the 1920's forward... thank you again!! Your self-serving "answer", such as it was, was HARDLY correct... but I can see where it could seem like history started there, to the present-day Left. You should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #84 December 27, 2006 QuoteYou should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. The question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? You know, occasionally we hear about (sex) slavery in this country, but I think most Americans think slavery ended with the Civil War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #85 December 27, 2006 QuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #86 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #87 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #88 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave I'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #89 December 27, 2006 QuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #90 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave Is *THAT* what that horrid droning was in the background? No, wait..that's trance...sorry! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #91 December 27, 2006 QuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #92 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Or that they are only for Free Speech as long as it isn't them being criticized. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/us/24aclu.html?ex=1306123200&en=cd9a5fd9f6948a5d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #93 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. And so we're back to the Roman Catholic Church!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #94 December 27, 2006 Quote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #95 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed. Agree to disagree, I suppose. Limited government assistance can be a good thing - a "womb to tomb" free ride isn't.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #96 December 27, 2006 QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #97 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #98 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries. Nice. Now, how about actually answering the questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #99 December 27, 2006 Here. I'll help. QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Not widespread at all. In fact, workhouses (outside of prison programs) were practically non-existent in the US. QuoteWere they commonplace in all eras? NO. Quote Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? YES. QuoteAre we talking about the norm or the exception? The exception. How am I doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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NCclimber 0 #84 December 27, 2006 QuoteYou should look up the history of workhouses for the poor. They hardly started in 1920 (hint - read Oliver Twist). My answer was historically correct - everything I mentioned existed prior to the 1940s, along with starvation. You are a revisionist. The question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? You know, occasionally we hear about (sex) slavery in this country, but I think most Americans think slavery ended with the Civil War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #85 December 27, 2006 QuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #86 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? Blues, Dave For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #87 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #88 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteACLU no longer able to threaten suit on a city or county whos the populus' vote goes against what they think is right for their special interests. So if a township with a Muslim majority passes a local measure that bans citizens from public participation in Christian or Jewish ceremonies, the ACLU shouldn't be able to step in and file suit to protect the first amendment rights of those discriminated against? What do you have against an organization that is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights? For one, I'd prefer they protect ALL of them... In a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave I'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #89 December 27, 2006 QuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #90 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not disputing that they do some good, but they're definitely 180 out on the 2nd... I'm in total agreement with you on that. Now can someone please change the record? This kum-bye-yah shit is totally inappropriate in Speaker's Corner! Blues, Dave Is *THAT* what that horrid droning was in the background? No, wait..that's trance...sorry! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #91 December 27, 2006 QuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #92 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. Or that they are only for Free Speech as long as it isn't them being criticized. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/us/24aclu.html?ex=1306123200&en=cd9a5fd9f6948a5d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #93 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a perfect world, they would. But it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge against a private organization for only doing some good rather than all the good, does it? A bit of help is better than none at all. Blues, Dave They're doing a bang up job on protecting the rights of sexual predators. And so we're back to the Roman Catholic Church!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #94 December 27, 2006 Quote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #95 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, John, you're ABSOLUTELY right... NO families or communities took care of their elderly...they just bunged them off into the workhouses when they were too old . Sorry, your attempts to redirect by showing worst-case scenarios aren't convincing me. You're learning, that's good : charitable assistance did not eliminate the worst horrors of poverty and starvation even in the richest countries on Earth. The very existence of worst case scenarios is WHY government programs are needed. Agree to disagree, I suppose. Limited government assistance can be a good thing - a "womb to tomb" free ride isn't.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #96 December 27, 2006 QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #97 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #98 December 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Were they commonplace in all eras? Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? Are we talking about the norm or the exception? How 'bout it, professor? Before these baby steps in social responsibility the poor just starved. Rather like they do now in third world countries. Nice. Now, how about actually answering the questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #99 December 27, 2006 Here. I'll help. QuoteThe question remains - how widespread were these workhouses, soup kitchens and hoovervilles throughout our history? Not widespread at all. In fact, workhouses (outside of prison programs) were practically non-existent in the US. QuoteWere they commonplace in all eras? NO. Quote Or quite rare outside of the Great Depression? YES. QuoteAre we talking about the norm or the exception? The exception. How am I doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
