NYPD Bullet Kills Groom on Wedding Day

[freethefly 6]

I can only guess that the conclusion will be that this is a justifiable killing as the cops MUST have felt threatened by a fender bender and that unloading their guns into the drivers car was the ONLY way to handle this situation. This is flat out murder.

NYPD Bullet Kills Groom on Wedding Day
Nov 25, 6:54 PM (ET)
By ADAM GOLDMAN

NEW YORK (AP) - Police opened fire early Saturday on a car full of men driving away from a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day in a shooting that drew a furious outcry from family members but little immediate explanation from police.

The shooting, which also left two other men hospitalized, drew angry protests from family members and the Rev. Al Sharpton.

As many as eight officers may have been involved in the shooting near the Kalua Cabaret in Queens, said Sgt. Mike Wysokowski, another department spokesman. There were no reports that any officers were wounded, Officer Kathleen Price said.

"First it was like four shots," said Abraham Kamara, 38, who lives a few blocks from the scene of the shooting and said he was getting ready for work at the time. "And then it was like pop-pop-pop like 12 times."

Police said little about the deadly incident other than the shooting stemmed from an undercover operation inside the club. Officers were "observing a group that later got into a confrontation with back-up officers outside," said a police official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation had not been completed.

The intersection where the shooting occurred remained blocked off Saturday afternoon as police inspected a car and a minivan and placed dozens of crime scene markers on the ground where shell casings had been recovered.

Denise Ford, who said her son was one of the survivors, said the trio's car had hit an unmarked police vehicle. Police did not immediately confirm that either of the vehicles in the intersection belonged to the department.

"All I know, they was celebrating," Ford said of the men. She said the man who died was the groom. "The guy was getting married today."

Relatives identified the man killed early Saturday as Sean Bell, 23. Sharpton said Bell and his fiancee had two children, ages 5 months and 3 years.

Sharpton said after visiting the two wounded men - Trent Benefield, 23, and Joseph Guzman, 31 - that he was outraged to find the pair handcuffed to their hospital beds. He said one suffered 17 wounds, though it was unclear how many were bullet wounds, and the other man was shot three times.

One of the wounded men was in critical condition at Mary Immaculate Hospital and the other was listed as stable.

"We're not anti-police ... we're anti-police brutality," Sharpton said.

Sharpton said family members told him that there were no guns in the young men's car and "there was no reason for the police to shoot."

"On the face of it, it seems to me to be certainly something that causes extreme alarm and must be thoroughly investigated," said the civil rights leader, who said he was called by a relative of Bell.

Robert Porter, who identified himself as a cousin of Bell, said about 250 people were invited to Saturday's wedding and were flying in from all over the country. He said his cousin wasn't the type to confront police and was "on the straight and narrow."

Roy Brown, who said he works as a photographer at the club, said sirens sounded not long after the three men left the club.

"They weren't rowdy or nothing like that," said Brown, 57.

The owner of the building, Juan Escobar, would not say who owned the Kalua Cabaret. A message seeking comment was left at a phone number listed for the club.

In 1999, NYPD officers killed Amadou Diallo, an unarmed West African immigrant who was shot 19 times in the entry to his apartment building. The four officers in that case were acquitted of criminal charges.

In 2003, Ousmane Zongo, 43, a native of the western African country of Burkina Faso, was killed during a police raid on a warehouse where he repaired art and musical instruments. Zongo was shot four times, twice in the back.
---
Associated Press writers Cristian Salazar and Jennifer Peltz contributed to this report.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[GQ_jumper 4]

This is flat out murder.

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from what I see in this story it is very inconclusive, the officers may very well have murdered these men, but at the same they may have had good reason to open fire. How about we afford the officers the same presumption of innocence that everyone else in this country gets until an investigation is completed. Don't forget the person who heard it happen said there were a few shots, and then a bunch more, who's to say the first few weren't at the police and the rest were them police returning fire.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[Samurai136 0]

NYTIMES Article

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Since no weapons were found in the victims’ car, Mr. Sharpton challenged the police to explain what had happened and why, and he insisted there was no basis for any charges against the wounded men.

No weapons means they didn't shoot at the cops. This case sounds more like a drunk driver who happened to have a fender bender with undercover officers.

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Witnesses told of chaos, screams and gunfire near Club Kalua at 143-08 94th Avenue in Jamaica just after 4 a.m. as the victims walked out, got into their silver Nissan Altima, drove half a block, turned a corner and struck a black unmarked police minivan bearing plainclothes officers.

The car then backed up, nearly hitting an undercover officer, and shot forward, slamming again into the police van, the police said.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Amazon 7]

Come on.. they had to be terrorists...

[ExAFO 0]

So...the alternative is anarchy, no Police, no nothing? No thanks.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Samurai136 0]

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If the person who was killed was white, would it make a difference?

So...the alternative is anarchy, no Police, no nothing? No thanks.

Police shooting innocent people happens in all communities. Believe it or not white cops also shoot innocent white people, too.


The choices are anarchy or police? Please tell me the Scarecrow also brought Dorthy and Toto over for Thanksgiving...

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[DaVinci 0]

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This case sounds more like a drunk driver who happened to have a fender bender with undercover officers

This sounds like a fender bender....."got into their silver Nissan Altima, drove half a block, turned a corner and struck a black unmarked police minivan bearing plainclothes officers. "

This sounds like an attack to me..."The car then backed up, nearly hitting an undercover officer, and shot forward, slamming again into the police van, the police said."

Trying to run over a cop is assult.

[Samurai136 0]

Since all the police in this scenario are "undercover, plain cloths, unmarked vehicles" it's reasonable to assume that the driver didn't know they were police.
A minor traffic accident in which none of the 'undercover' cops are harmed sounds like a good reason to unload 50 rounds into an unarmed driver and passengers. Gotta be tough on crime and hold the dam against the pounding waves of anarchy.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Amazon 7]

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This sounds like a fender bender....."got into their silver Nissan Altima, drove half a block, turned a corner and struck a black unmarked police minivan bearing plainclothes officers. "

This sounds like an attack to me..."The car then backed up, nearly hitting an undercover officer, and shot forward, slamming again into the police van, the police said."

Trying to run over a cop is assult.

No uniforms.. might have been scared out of their minds by the men with guns....no police cars.... sounds like someone was trying to get away from the bad men with guns..

[DaVinci 0]

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No uniforms.. might have been scared out of their minds by the men with guns....no police cars.... sounds like someone was trying to get away from the bad men with guns..

Or trying to run from cops. I really don't like how you are willing to hang the cops for being cops. They were attacked and you cannot say that they did it out of fear. It is possible, but I am willing to wait...You however want them shot just for being cops.

Cops or not...Trying to run over people is an attack with a deadly weapon and force is alowed in that situation.

[Amazon 7]

And you and others are all to ready to give the police a pass on anything like this.

yeah.... driving while black is a serious offence...an offence that seems to end up this way far too often..

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...Trying to run over people is an attack with a deadly weapon and force is alowed in that situation.

I would flatten the muthafuckas that were trying to shoot at me. I see guns... in a situation like that I am NOT waiting around.....

[GQ_jumper 4]

I would flatten the muthafuckas that were trying to shoot at me. I see guns... in a situation like that I am NOT waiting around.....

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how about you avoid the whole situation by not walking out of a bar and tryign to start a fight with someone and then promptly following it up with an attempt on their life by runnng them over? But I guess someone trying to runover another person just because they did't know whether or not it was an officer is acceptable to you. Someone attacking me with a vehicle is an attempt on my life and will be treated as a lethal threat. These drunk assholes went too far and the police acted accordingly, IMO, I know to the left wing community a police officer defending themselves against a drunk assailant is going to far but who the fuck are you to tell someone that they can't defend their own god damn life.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[wuffo2 0]

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I would flatten the muthafuckas that were trying to shoot at me. I see guns... in a situation like that I am NOT waiting around.....

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how about you avoid the whole situation by not walking out of a bar and tryign to start a fight with someone and then promptly following it up with an attempt on their life by runnng them over? But I guess someone trying to runover another person just because they did't know whether or not it was an officer is acceptable to you. Someone attacking me with a vehicle is an attempt on my life and will be treated as a lethal threat. These drunk assholes went too far and the police acted accordingly, IMO, I know to the left wing community a police officer defending themselves against a drunk assailant is going to far but who the fuck are you to tell someone that they can't defend their own god damn life.

From what I've read I very much doubt the lives were in danger

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[Andy9o8 1]

I heard it was a case of mistaken identity. They thought there was a 92 year old woman in the car.

[aprilcat 0]

...tryign (sic) to start a fight with someone...
The undercover cops OVERHEARD a loud eschange as the men left the club. One of the guys told his friend 'go get my piece'. And they got in their car and drove off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...and then promptly following it up with an attempt on their life by runnng them over?...
They never threatened the police. They are not involved in verbal dispute with the police. This was an accident.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...But I guess someone trying to runover another person just because they did't [sic--you're slurring your type, hon] know whether or not it was an officer is acceptable to you....

I'd have gunned it if I were in that neighbohood and I hit someone and was met with over 15 guns. IF they were drug dealers you're not getting out of there. IF they are cops, guess what? YOU'RE NOT GETTING OUT OF THERE.

Did they IDENTIFY themselves as police in a manner where they could be heard? Thats part of the job. CLEARLY identifying yourself. Under which offense is it necessary for one of the officers to shoot 31 times, taking time to RELOAD his weapon? What happened to shooting out the tires, or ordering a person out of their car in the first place?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...Someone attacking me with a vehicle is an attempt on my life and will be treated as a lethal threat...

I can imagine what you'd do to Grandma if her break pedal went out. BuhBye, Grandma! No waiting to see what you're doing, you drunken asshole!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...These drunk assholes went too far and the police acted accordingly, IMO, I know to the left wing a thinking community a police officer defending themselves...

I fixed it for you. If you're so busy DIVIDING people into groups before the facts are known, you got issues. No further commentary from me.~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[kallend 1,853]

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I heard it was a case of mistaken identity. They thought there was a 92 year old woman in the car.

Or the ghost of Amadou Diallo

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

I think... given who the guys were.. in a car...in that neighborhood..they had a fender b ender and whne a whole bunch of guns come out... and you are not armed....GQJumper would get out of his car and do kung fu shit on them.

[billvon 2,772]

> But I guess someone trying to runover another person just because
>they did't know whether or not it was an officer is acceptable to you.

If, someday, I am in my car, trying to leave the area of a bar fight, and someone in street clothes runs into the street and points a gun at me - I am going to run them over. I'd rather be wrong and alive than careful and dead.

Now, if he has a police uniform on, I'm going to stop, because chances are he is NOT going to shoot me and take my car.

[jimmytavino 16]

valid point billvon...

re "An undercover operation inside the club"

...come again???? Drugs? ...Vice? liquor violations?.....
or were the cops just killin' time and 'taking in the sights ' themselves,,, when they first "observed" this 'bachelor party'..
hmmm black patrons,,,white cops.. maybe white 'dancers'..... and some testosterone running rampant..... that can spell trouble.....

...As for a 23 yr old "man",, finally getting around to legitimizing his 'woman' as a wife, and already with 2 children on the scene.....
He sure does NOT need to be going to a strip club with his 'boys'.. the damn nite,, BEFORE his wedding..
A real man....first of all wouldda married the girl years ago, and second of all should have been seeing to the arrival of all these outta town guests,, and NOT prepping himself to be hung over for his own GD wedding... ( imho)

wrong time wrong place for all involved,, but if there was lots of drinking and then erratic driving, and then lost tempers and then altercations... well sadly we see the results....
as for black on white or white on black....
i'm losing my patience over hearing that..
it's more likely,,,,,stupid on stupid,
sorry for the rant.


jmy

[Scoop 0]

I thought it was such a polite society

*stirs the shit*

[Amazon 7]

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as for black on white or white on black....
i'm losing my patience over hearing that..

It is what it is.... and this is the result... just like the little old black 92 year old lady sitting in her home.. scared to death that someone would break in... well they did but it was the police.. in the dark.. in H HOME.. and that is happening far too often.. of the police..." Making Mistakes"

[Scoop 0]

Everyone makes mistakes in all sorts of situations in life. When weapons are involved, along with fear and very little time to react, the consequences can be severe.

I don't understand what this black/white argument is. Are people trying to say it was a racist attack? I find it hard to believe you'd get away with being a racist cop in New York for very long. You'd be out the force extremely fast.

From what we have read (and how accurate is the media) there has been some sort of altercation or exchange of words inside or outside the venue, furthur to that for whatever reason a vehicle nearly hits a police officer. With your laws I'm of the understanding he'd be within his rights to shoot the driver to protect his own life or anyone elses in those circumstances. Whether they are armed or not is irrelevant, they were in a vehicle which is deemed a lethal weapon isn't it? The belief of whether they were armed is important.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but when your experiencing a 'brown trouser moment' you dont have that benefit.

I find it amusing that many people seem to find it ok that a civilian can practically execute someone for being on their property but if a police officer fears for his life hes not allowed to shoot. What the fuck? Double standards! Same over here, if we get the shit kicked out of us, very rare for any serious conviction. But if we are found guilty of excessive force we'd lose our jobs, receive a stiff penalty and be publically humiliated by the media as some sort of public relations exercise.

Too bad they were a bunch of assholes. If they were behaving themselves they wouldnt have even come to police attention.

[Gawain 0]

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Since all the police in this scenario are "undercover, plain cloths, unmarked vehicles" it's reasonable to assume that the driver didn't know they were police.

Even if it was a civilian, who happened to be packing, s/he's be justified using deadly force to defend themselves against an oncoming car.

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A minor traffic accident in which none of the 'undercover' cops are harmed sounds like a good reason to unload 50 rounds into an unarmed driver and passengers. Gotta be tough on crime and hold the dam against the pounding waves of anarchy.

I'd like to learn more before I presume anything about the action.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Richards 0]

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yeah.... driving while black is a serious offence...an offence that seems to end up this way far too often..

Is there anything other than the skin colour of the victim that suggests that this was a racially motivated shooting? Certainly the cops actions are questionable (as were the victims) and the incident merits a very close investigation. But does this mean we have to presume they were executed for "driving while black" before a thorough investigation is completed?

It is premature to be jumping to polarizing conclusions.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Amazon 7]

I guess you or I will never know..

BUT in many large cities... being a car full of( Pick your favorite color) in the wrong neighborhood( Pick your opposite color) and you get in a minor fender bender.. and out come the guns no uniforms.. no police cars in sight........ you gotta ask yourself... what are YOU going to do... you gonna whip out your gun and start blasting OR are you going to try like fuck to get the hell out of there.

I guess that is punishable by death in this case.... it seeems to me.. it happens far too often.... just my perception.. unless like in another thread the individual is just trying to clen out the gene pool a bit.