Don't forget your ID at UCLA

[justinb138 0]

Not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but the video is pretty disturbing.

I was under the impression that police officers were to use tasers as an alternative to firearms when possible, not when someone isn't doing what you asked them. The student was probably being a dick, but I don't see how this can't be considered excessive force.

Store Here:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4763689

[Gawain 0]

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Not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but the video is pretty disturbing.

I was under the impression that police officers were to use tasers as an alternative to firearms when possible, not when someone isn't doing what you asked them. The student was probably being a dick, but I don't see how this can't be considered excessive force.

Store Here:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4763689

This is my understanding: Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability to do their job. Once the officer determines there is nothing more to do, you're released from that custody.

The kid, if he had any idea how to maintain composure, could have said, "officer, I'm cooperating, do you really need to physically escort me out of the lab?" The fact that the officer felt the need to "handle" him probably means the kid started spouting off at the hole beneath his nose from the get-go.

Can cops be dicks...hell-f**king-yeah! But if you cover your side of the street and show basic respect, you won't have a problem, even with the asshats.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[likearock 1]

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This is my understanding: Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability to do their job.

Come on, these guys weren't even LAPD, they were campus police. Their recreation of the familiar WWII "your papers please" combined by their subsequent overreaction was completely over the line.

BTW, you should check out the video if you haven't already:

[Gawain 0]

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This is my understanding: Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability to do their job.

Come on, these guys weren't even LAPD, they were campus police. Their recreation of the familiar WWII "your papers please" combined by their subsequent overreaction was completely over the line.

BTW, you should check out the video if you haven't already:

Campus police isn't exactly rent-a-cop security. UCLA is a city unto itself (what, 60,000 students, plus faculty & staff). So, that argument doesn't hold water.

The video doesn't show the initial encounter (funny how that always happens), so I'll withold overall judgement. LA area cops are pretty damn sensitive to use of force for obvious reasons. Pitting that against what has become, in my view, a highly disturbing level of arrogance in today's youth generation...I'll stop there.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jenfly00 0]

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Not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but the video is pretty disturbing.

I was under the impression that police officers were to use tasers as an alternative to firearms when possible, not when someone isn't doing what you asked them. The student was probably being a dick, but I don't see how this can't be considered excessive force.

Store Here:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4763689

This is my understanding: Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability to do their job. Once the officer determines there is nothing more to do, you're released from that custody.

The kid, if he had any idea how to maintain composure, could have said, "officer, I'm cooperating, do you really need to physically escort me out of the lab?" The fact that the officer felt the need to "handle" him probably means the kid started spouting off at the hole beneath his nose from the get-go.

Can cops be dicks...hell-f**king-yeah! But if you cover your side of the street and show basic respect, you won't have a problem, even with the asshats.

And here I thought that fully complying with the requests of the officer would be sufficient to avoid being tasered ...go figure.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Gawain 0]

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And here I thought that fully complying with the requests of the officer would be sufficient to avoid being tasered ...go figure.

What did I say that was different from that?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[NCclimber 0]

I can hardly wait until this gets played up as a Patriot Act issue.

[kallend 1,648]

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I can hardly wait until this gets played up as a Patriot Act issue.

So - hold your breath until then - please.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

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Come on, these guys weren't even LAPD, they were campus police.

These "campus police" are one of only two police organizations in the California to have statewide jurisdiction (the other being the California Highway Patrol - the CHP has statewide jx for obvious reasons).

I find it difficult to say whether the UCPD acted excessively. It's perfectly legitimate to check to see whether the person using the computer lab is a student or some dude off the street. If the rules are that you are subject to ID checks, and if you don't have ID, you leave, then those are the rules.

Furthermore, there HAS to be more going on with this. Being a UC alum, UCPD doesn't do these checks - the CSO's do. The CSO is the "Community Service Organization." They are students who act like security without true police powers (at UCSB, they did stuff like escort female students at night, took reports, and the like. They are like a liaison, too.

I reckon in this instance, the CSO's were performing the ID checks. This dude didn't have ID. They asked him to leave. He refused. Then the CSO's called the police (as they should). After the UCPD got there, this guy was still giving them a hassle. Now, a person who is unresponsive to police commands sets off alerts with the officers that this person may be in an altered mental state. Yes, ER docs test an emergency patient's responsiveness to commands to determine cognitive deficit. Combativeness is a sign of brain trauma or drug abuse.

So, this guy refused to comply with a CSO's requests, stuck around until the cops got there, refused to comply with a cop's DEMAND, was combative when the cops started to forcibly remove him, continued to be combative after being tasered, and then yelled out, "I WAS LEAVING!!!!"

Come on, guys. Put yourself in the position of a UCPD cop. I know this may shock most of you, but believe it or not, college campuses do have lots of students who experiment with drugs, inlcuding meth, pcp, and other less innocuous substances than alcohol and herb.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Skyrad 0]

Makes me laugh those Tacklberry wanabe's calling themselves Police, any other country in the world calls them security guards. As for Mostafa Tabatabainejad... Sounds like an A'rab to me

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Can cops be dicks...hell-f**king-yeah! But if you cover your side of the street and show basic respect, you won't have a problem, even with the asshats.

I disagree. Most of the time you will be alright but I have seen cops nick somone for being DD when they wern't even drinking. The cop came up from behind the guy hooked him around the throat and dragged him into a meat wagon having just said on the radio 'I'm bringing some in'. The guy was minding his own bussiness and wasn't even talking loud. He was then charged with being DD and sentenced to a suspended sentence and a fine. That was totally F**ked up, especially as he was a publican and it then effected his livelyhood.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 2,434]

>Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or
>whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest
>and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability
>to do their job.

That's definitely not true. If a cop stops you for a broken headlight, and says "I'm gonna look in your trunk if you don't mind" you can absolutely say no.

[justinb138 0]

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It's perfectly legitimate to check to see whether the person using the computer lab is a student or some dude off the street. If the rules are that you are subject to ID checks, and if you don't have ID, you leave, then those are the rules.

Agreed. According to witnesses in the library, he was heading toward the door with his stuff when the police entered the library.

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I reckon in this instance, the CSO's were performing the ID checks. This dude didn't have ID. They asked him to leave. He refused. Then the CSO's called the police (as they should). After the UCPD got there, this guy was still giving them a hassle.

I've seen a few of the interviews of the students in the library at the time it happened. They reported that he didn't have his ID, and was asked to leave by a CSO. He didn't immediately leave, and the UCPD were called. On his way out of the library, the UCPD grabbed him (You can here him telling them to let him go on the video). They then hit him with the taser.

They told him to get up, he didn't (I've never been tasered, so I'm not sure how difficult it would be to get up after being hit by one) so they did it again, and again, and a few more times.

A few students said that they were threatened with the taser after asking the officers for their information.

I can understand using the taser for self-defense, or even to take someone down, but continuing to use it because the guy wouldn't stand up seems like it's way over the line as to what's considered excessive.

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Come on, guys. Put yourself in the position of a UCPD cop. I know this may shock most of you, but believe it or not, college campuses do have lots of students who experiment with drugs, inlcuding meth, pcp, and other less innocuous substances than alcohol and herb.

Agreed, but when did a potentially lethal weapon become an acceptable replacement for handcuffs?

[Skyrad 0]

It wasn't a replacement he was cuffed as they tasered him. Look again at the video.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[justinb138 0]

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It wasn't a replacement he was cuffed as they tasered him. Look again at the video.

Lovely. I'm suprised they didn't taser him in the damn car.

[Balls 0]

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Makes me laugh those Tacklberry wanabe's calling themselves Police, any other country in the world calls them security guards.

There are lots of Universities that have State commissioned Police departments. (meaning they aren't rent-a-po's)

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....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

[Balls 0]

A lot of it depends on the department's use of force policy and where the tazer is placed in it.

The county where I live the tazer is one step above verbal commands. ie. don't comply, you get tazed.

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....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

[AggieDave 6]

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That's definitely not true. If a cop stops you for a broken headlight, and says "I'm gonna look in your trunk if you don't mind" you can absolutely say no.

Exactly.

This is where people are faults unto themselves. They don't understand what their rights are. When their only education or desire for education of our legal system is watching Law and Order on TV, then they're doing themselves an injustice. Too many people think they have certain rights that they don't legally have. Only because they've seen it on a fictional TV show.

Too many people don't understand their rights and how they protect them as well.

Its your life, its your rights and its your well being. Read and learn what they are. This country has worked long and hard to have an education system that teaches you how to read reasonably well. So put down the remote and start reading. Start by reading the constitution. Continue with your state's constitution. Then read your state's Penal Code (or similarly named) and your state's Traffic Code. Also read your state's version of the Code of Criminal Proceedure. That's important, since that governs much of what LEOs do.

Also you'll learn who are certified peace officers in your state and who aren't. Skippy the wonderguard at Wal-Mart isn't a certified peace officer (unless he's working as security off duty). The campus police officers typically are certified peace officers.

Its amazing how very wrong opinions in terms of the law, people's rights and the allowances for police officers would go away if people would actually have made it an educated opinion.

Alas, people are destined to simply not care and will continue to have TV fiction "teach" them. Even TV "non-fiction" and "educational" isn't right quite often.

This comes up after a fair number of people having stated "I know my rights, I watch TV." (I'm not kidding). It also comes up from threads like this in which some interesting opinions about rights come up.

Bill, atleast you are one of the few that have an educated opinion in this matter.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zipp0 1]

There is little doubt that this is excessive force.

Here's a similar case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTJCqOlh_4w

And the result:

http://www.nopepperspray.org/

If you don't want to look at the links, this was a case where non-violent female protesters had pepper spray swabbed into their eyes. It was determined by a court to have been excessive use of force.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Gawain 0]

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>Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or
>whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest
>and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability
>to do their job.

That's definitely not true. If a cop stops you for a broken headlight, and says "I'm gonna look in your trunk if you don't mind" you can absolutely say no.

You can say no, but that doesn't release you from custody. Invariably what happens is, the officer will continue to detain you until a court order is obtained. Sometimes that happens right there roadside, if the cop has reasonable suspicion, the car is impounded and you're brought to the station until the search is completed.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Zipp0 1]

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>Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or
>whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest
>and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability
>to do their job.

That's definitely not true. If a cop stops you for a broken headlight, and says "I'm gonna look in your trunk if you don't mind" you can absolutely say no.

You can say no, but that doesn't release you from custody. Invariably what happens is, the officer will continue to detain you until a court order is obtained. Sometimes that happens right there roadside, if the cop has reasonable suspicion, the car is impounded and you're brought to the station until the search is completed.

And then you SUE his ass for false arrest/imprisonment. (assuming you were doing nothing wrong)

If they impound your car and tear it apart and detain you they better have a DAMN good reason.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Skyrad 0]

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>Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or
>whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest
>and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability
>to do their job.

That's definitely not true. If a cop stops you for a broken headlight, and says "I'm gonna look in your trunk if you don't mind" you can absolutely say no.

You can say no, but that doesn't release you from custody. Invariably what happens is, the officer will continue to detain you until a court order is obtained. Sometimes that happens right there roadside, if the cop has reasonable suspicion, the car is impounded and you're brought to the station until the search is completed.

And then you SUE his ass for false arrest/imprisonment. (assuming you were doing nothing wrong)

If they impound your car and tear it apart and detain you they better have a DAMN good reason.

You can't do them for anything if like Max said

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if the cop has reasonable suspicion,

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Zipp0 1]

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>Whenever an officer stops you, whether for a traffic infraction or
>whatever, at that point, you are technically under some measure of arrest
>and you have to do what they say, or else, you're obstructing their ability
>to do their job.

That's definitely not true. If a cop stops you for a broken headlight, and says "I'm gonna look in your trunk if you don't mind" you can absolutely say no.

You can say no, but that doesn't release you from custody. Invariably what happens is, the officer will continue to detain you until a court order is obtained. Sometimes that happens right there roadside, if the cop has reasonable suspicion, the car is impounded and you're brought to the station until the search is completed.

And then you SUE his ass for false arrest/imprisonment. (assuming you were doing nothing wrong)

If they impound your car and tear it apart and detain you they better have a DAMN good reason.

You can't do them for anything if like Max said

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if the cop has reasonable suspicion,

PROBABLE CAUSE is the measure, not suspicion, sorry:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[lawrocket 3]

Yep. You can say no. There's no probable cause for arrest most of the time. If there's some suspicion and the cop wants to search your car, you can say, "No." The cop probably doesn't have enough for a warrant, either. So you wait for awhile until K-9 comes along, whereupon poochie sniffs around for drugs. Poochie indicates drugs? Well, then, now the rules are different. If poochie doesn't find anything, you'll probably be free to go.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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the cop has reasonable suspicion,

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PROBABLE CAUSE is the measure, not suspicion, sorry:

Reasonable suspicion is cause for a brief seizure (a Terry stop) since 1968...

My wife is hotter than your wife.