nigel99 150 #1 November 13, 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6142416.stm Crazy on the radio they, said that the home office was sued for "breaching their human rights" by preventing drug use...Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #2 November 13, 2006 Quotehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6142416.stm Crazy on the radio they, said that the home office was sued for "breaching their human rights" by preventing drug use... I think you misrepresent the situation. It reads to me like they were denied proper detox procedures.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #3 November 13, 2006 QuoteQuotehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6142416.stm Crazy on the radio they, said that the home office was sued for "breaching their human rights" by preventing drug use... I think you misrepresent the situation. It reads to me like they were denied proper detox procedures. Not only that, but they were receiving proper detox proc prior to going to jail.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #4 November 13, 2006 It's an interesting question. It's fairly commonplace, at least in the US, for newly-arrested jail prisoners who are drug addicts to have to undergo cold-turkey detox (basically by default) upon arrest. Cold-turkey detox from heroin, for example, can be very painful (extreme tremors and cramping, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc.). Can it be that this can be deemed a form of torture, or "cruel and unusual punishment"? It would make an interesting term paper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 150 #5 November 13, 2006 BBC radio 4 did sensationalise the article by claiming on the headline that it was that they were being denied drugs. I agree that the article here presents a much less sensational view. However I still don't like the fact that people can try and "sue" the system for dealing with the consequences of a criminal offence.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 November 13, 2006 Seems on the face of it, (and I stress that I've not looked into this beyond the facts presented in the article), that the case would seem pretty much 'open and shut' to me. The Govt. is clearly liable. Say you're a type two diabetic and you go to jail. The Govt. has a duty of care towards you to not deny you your medication, (insulin). They breach that duty by not giving you the medication you need. You go into hyperglycemic shock and suffer unpleasant symptoms. The Govt. is going to be found liable for the harm they caused you. Say this time you need methadone, a perfectly legal medication which you were taking before going to jail. The Govt. has a duty of care towards you to not deny you your medication. They breach that duty by not giving you the medication you need. You go cold turkey and suffer unpleasant symptoms. I can see no reason why this should be at all distinguished from the former set of circumstances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnnasSkies 0 #7 November 13, 2006 I've already learned here that being Dutch and having Dutch values is not something people here understand, so I will just wisely say nothing... (ok, so I've said something already)fear is the mindkill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #8 November 13, 2006 QuoteI've already learned here that being Dutch and having Dutch values is not something people here understand, so I will just wisely say nothing... (ok, so I've said something already) Well, then why bother posting at all? Express your views. It seems a bit silly create a post just to tell us "I have an opinion but won't tell you what it is." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 150 #9 November 13, 2006 Thats cause being dutch drugs should be legal and therefore my argument is invalid as it would be a legal substance. mr2mk1g - I take the point about methadone being legal. Small point is that it doesn't say that they all were however. Personal belief is that people should be helped off drugs in prison - I just disagree with the sueing the gov part.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #10 November 13, 2006 Diabetes is a medical condition. Addiction is not-it's a poor choice. Suck it up, buttercup. It's time to kick your addiction What's next, a right to cigarettes in prison? A 12-pack for the alcoholic? What the fuck? It's Prison. You don't get to bitch if the reception on the TV sucks, or you don't get filet mignon. Heroin is not a disease. It is an illegal drug. Methadone is simply a substitute addiction. Cold turkey detox may be painful, but unless death is imminent, tough shit, inmate. You should've considered that prior to becoming a guest of the State.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #11 November 13, 2006 QuoteThats cause being dutch drugs should be legal and therefore my argument is invalid as it would be a legal substance. mr2mk1g - I take the point about methadone being legal. Small point is that it doesn't say that they all were however. Personal belief is that people should be helped off drugs in prison - I just disagree with the sueing the gov part. What process would you use to prevent a government from infringing on your rights? Let's assume that saying "Pretty please don't infringe on my rights" didn't work.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #12 November 13, 2006 QuoteDiabetes is a medical condition. Addiction is not-it's a poor choice. Suck it up, buttercup. It's time to kick your addiction What's next, a right to cigarettes in prison? A 12-pack for the alcoholic? What the fuck? It's Prison. You don't get to bitch if the reception on the TV sucks, or you don't get filet mignon. Heroin is not a disease. It is an illegal drug. Methadone is simply a substitute addiction. Cold turkey detox may be painful, but unless death is imminent, tough shit, inmate. You should've considered that prior to becoming a guest of the State. I hope you never have to experience the fact that addiction is a disease.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #13 November 13, 2006 Quote I hope you never have to experience the fact that addiction is a disease. I see it as a self-inflicted condition, not worthy of being in the same category as cancer, diabetes, or HIV (which can be acquired without conscious choice.) I submit that detox in prison, while unpleasant, is a good thing. Perhaps the unplesantness of prison detox will deter recidivism. Society has an interest in encouraging the weaning of criminals from drugs. Prison is supposed to be unpleasant. It's Prison. I'll be damned if my tax $ goes to paying someone to get their fix in the can.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 150 #14 November 13, 2006 Point is that I don't believe that illegal drugs are a right. However I do believe that the government infringes my rights (personal data to the USA if I fly there, CCTV are probably my 2 biggest gripes). I suppose that to a large extent I am resigned to the fact that governments don't listen to the people and abuse our rights. I don't believe that modern democracy balances the government as the political parties are so similar. As I am not about to sue the government over the above to issues, I don't have a simple answer. I suppose bluntly governments deteriotate to the point where the abuse of civil rights is so blatant that they get overthrown. I think that the west has had a honeymoon period where individuals had a lot of rights and I believe we will see these eroded rapidly over future decades. But that is probably a different thread.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #15 November 13, 2006 Quote Diabetes is a medical condition. Addiction is not-it's a poor choice. I picked type two diabetes for a reason - it too can be self-inflicted. QuoteI'll be damned if my tax $ goes to paying someone to get their fix in the can. My tax £ go to paying for their methadone whether or not they're in the can. We have a national health service. It means that it matters not whether they are in prison or walking the streets - they still get methadone to get them off the smack. The Government is under a duty of care to see to it those under their care have reasonable access to appropriate medical care. Whether or not it is appropriate for any particular individual to get methadone is up to medical professionals - not the Govt. That goes for whether or not they are a prisoner or an ordinary citizen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #16 November 13, 2006 QuoteQuote I hope you never have to experience the fact that addiction is a disease. I see it as a self-inflicted condition, not worthy of being in the same category as cancer, diabetes, or HIV (which can be acquired without conscious choice.) They can all be acquired via poor lifestyle choices, too. Which makes them very similar to addiction. Incidentally, some people are genetically predisposed to be more susceptible to addiction, so it is not always a conscious choice, either. In fact, I think you will find few people who deliberately set out to be addicts. Like I said, addiction is a disease.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
