How to get China to reign in N. Korea? - Recognize Taiwan

[sundevil777 94]

I think we should consider recognition of Taiwan. Tell China we will also sell them weapons.

The Chinese are very keen on that not happening.

I think it is a good strategy because we simply look like we are recognizing what has been a functioning, independent democracy.

We could announce a schedule for that recognition, without even demanding that the Chinese do something about N. Korea. They would know what the implicit demand was. Then, even if China straightens out N. Korea, we should recognize Taiwan anyway because that is the right thing to do.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Butters 0]

Are you serious or being sarcastic?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Trent 0]

Or we could start helping Taiwan (on the semi-downlow of course) start developing their own nukes. How would China like them apples? Turnabout should be fair, and since so many people think that it's actually a fair and good thing that everyone has nukes... we'd just be helping that happen! Yay!!!

Oh, hello again!

[sundevil777 94]

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Are you serious or being sarcastic?

Yes, very serious. What is the nature of your surprise? So what if it pisses off China?

Many think that our "one China" policy is turning our back on a fledgling democracy. Why would we want to do that?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rickjump1 0]

Good idea. The Chinese know they have us by the nuts. It's time to wiggle and start a slow withdrawl.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[masterblaster72 0]

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I think we should consider recognition of Taiwan.

In principle, this is a good idea.

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The Chinese are very keen on that not happening.

I think it is a good strategy because we simply look like we are recognizing what has been a functioning, independent democracy.

We could announce a schedule for that recognition, without even demanding that the Chinese do something about N. Korea. They would know what the implicit demand was. Then, even if China straightens out N. Korea, we should recognize Taiwan anyway because that is the right thing to do.

Your logic for China doing something about N. Korea is as a consequence of recognizing Taiwan is completely incoherent.

"Throw gasoline on the fire, yeeehaawww cowboy" is kinda what you're getting at, yeah? It's in line with the kinda foreign policy of recent years, so this kind of rubbish doesn't surprise me at all.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[sundevil777 94]

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Or we could start helping Taiwan (on the semi-downlow of course) start developing their own nukes. How would China like them apples? Turnabout should be fair, and since so many people think that it's actually a fair and good thing that everyone has nukes... we'd just be helping that happen! Yay!!!

I'm not ready to advocate a nuclear armed Taiwan.

But a Taiwan with a large base for the latest anti-missile defense weaponry might be good.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Trent 0]

Clearly, having a Taiwan with an effective missile defense is a declaration of war on NK and China.... right?

Oh, hello again!

[Butters 0]

If we are going to enter into this situation in a confrontational manner then we should be prepared for another world war. I am not sure that we or any other nations are prepared for another world war at this time. This is the reason I was asking if you were being serious or sarcastic.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[sundevil777 94]

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Your logic for China doing something about N. Korea is as a consequence of recognizing Taiwan is completely incoherent.

"Throw gasoline on the fire, yeeehaawww cowboy" is kinda what you're getting at, yeah? It's in line with the kinda foreign policy of recent years, so this kind of rubbish doesn't surprise me at all.

It is using leverage that we have.

I think recognizing Taiwan is the right thing to do, even if we had better relations with N. Korea and China.

Isn't the use of economic sanctions "throwing gas on the fire"? Some economic sanctions would have the effect of worsening their economy. Recognizing Taiwan does not make the average N. Korean more poor, but it certainly is something China cares strongly about.

L'il Kim has already said he would fire nuclear missiles at the US if we don't have direct (2 party) talks with them.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 94]

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Clearly, having a Taiwan with an effective missile defense is a declaration of war on NK and China.... right?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[StreetScooby 5]

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It is using leverage that we have.

I would imagine that we have better leverage than that.

We are all engines of karma

[sundevil777 94]

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It is using leverage that we have.

I would imagine that we have better leverage than that.

What do you have in mind?

We could impose tariffs on Chinese products. To a limited extent, I agree with that, but it is unlikely to happen because of the effect on our own economy.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[masterblaster72 0]

Trent:

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Clearly, having a Taiwan with an effective missile defense is a declaration of war on NK and China.... right?

Not necessarily declaring war on NK, but it's essentially a challenge to China that they will react to. We'd be inciting a bombing/invasion of Taiwan, as China has said repeatedly that they will invade the island if they get uppity with arms or declarations of complete sovereignty.

Sundevil:

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It is using leverage that we have.

China is just as macho as we are; they have the ambition of dominating their region. They won't put their tail between their legs and react by doing something we'd like them to do.Your assumption that China will react in our favor (straightening out N. Korea) after arming Taiwan isn't realistic.

Really, I wonder if you're being sarcastic too.

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I think recognizing Taiwan is the right thing to do

I agree, but unfortunately the risk of doing so outweighs the benefits. It's why we've been taking such a pragmatic approach to this.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Butters 0]

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Clearly, having a Taiwan with an effective missile defense is a declaration of war on NK and China.... right?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic?

If Taiwan declared war against China then America arming Taiwan against China would be similar to when America declared war on England and the French armed America against England. (This was a good action since Britian was oppressing America.) However, Taiwan has not declared war on China and arming at any point Tawain will most likely lead to a world war and not just a civil war.

America can not place economic sanctions against China without creating a confrontational situation. However, Americans can boycott Chinese merchandise without creating a confrontational situation.

We should get Americans to boycott Chinese merchandise and continue peaceful negotiations between Taiwan and China as a first plan of action. If Taiwan and China move away from peaceful negotiations then arming Taiwan should become a possibility.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[StreetScooby 5]

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What do you have in mind?

Not sure, and anyway, it's above my pay grade

We are all engines of karma

[Trent 0]

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I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic? Laugh

In a way, it is sarcastic... I mean... Taiwan has direct reason to fear attack from China so...

But yeah, NK and China seem to both think that Japan, SK, and Taiwan having some sort of missile defense is an act of war... just like when the Russians thought Star Wars was real...

Oh, hello again!

[idrankwhat 0]

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I think we should consider recognition of Taiwan. Tell China we will also sell them weapons.

The Chinese are very keen on that not happening.

I think it is a good strategy because we simply look like we are recognizing what has been a functioning, independent democracy.

We could announce a schedule for that recognition, without even demanding that the Chinese do something about N. Korea. They would know what the implicit demand was. Then, even if China straightens out N. Korea, we should recognize Taiwan anyway because that is the right thing to do.

Just for argument, has anyone considered that the US is stretched so far militarily and that China finances so much of our debt (I think we hit another record last month) and is so important to the bottom line of so many retailers here in the US that they might be looking at this as an opportunity to say "give us Taiwan and we'll deal with NK for you"? Just a thought.

[StreetScooby 5]

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"give us Taiwan and we'll deal with NK for you"?

And you would believe them/China saying that?

We are all engines of karma

[Frenchy68 0]

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I think we should consider recognition of Taiwan. Tell China we will also sell them weapons.
The Chinese are very keen on that not happening.

You are right in that the Chinese would be possed off. Taiwan is considered as a renegade province in China, as it was part of China for many centuries until 1949 (with episodes of occupation by the Japanese since the end of the 19th Century). Hence China's claim and desire to retrieve it. Something somewhat similar happened in the US in the 1860's. The man who supervised the reclaiming of the renegade territories ended up with his face on the local currency.

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I think it is a good strategy because we simply look like we are recognizing what has been a functioning, independent democracy.

Considering that one same party ruled from 1949 until few years ago, I would hardly call Taiwan a functioning democracy. It is getting there, but since 1949 was as much a democracy as Iraq was pre-2003.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."